Guest Aughtsix Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Okay, moving on to other concerns... If the shift return spring happens to fail, how 'fixable' is it? In other words, in reading through tons of posts I don't see that anyone's had to pull their tranny to fix it. It sounds like there's a sideplate that comes off and you can just change springs roadside if necessary, but being careful to line things up properly. Yes? Or, is it a major pain in the a$$ to fix... And/or can it really be done properly roadside... Secondly, are there any updates as to a causation? There are a couple of crapshoots to this brand and I'm just trying to get them settled in my mind. I love wrenching on my bikes - I see it as an intimate thing, sorta like sex I suppose - but I hate wrenching on my bikes roadside. Naw, no roadside sex for me. TIA; Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Robson Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 There are literally hundreds of replies to this on different threads. It is fixable at the roadside, with the bike leant to the right, albeit by someone way more skilled than me. At one time it was thought that the mounting boss for the spring was too big, but then someone had the problem on a normal sized boss. I knew about this before I bought the bike. Happens to some and not to others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 It is fixable at the roadside, with the bike leant to the right, albeit by someone way more skilled than me. At one time it was thought that the mounting boss for the spring was too big, but then someone had the problem on a normal sized boss. It's not a difficult job, but a bit fiddly. You need short allen key, circlip pliers, & a method of pulling the plate. It could be bodged roadside but unless I had to, I wouldn't. Failure usually leaves bike stuck in 2nd or third gear - driveable - depends how far home.... As it stands it is reasonable to believe the breakages are caused by oversize spring bosses fitted to some bikes stressing a poorly designed (& pos poorly made) spring. We heard of two bikes apparently had correct size boss yet still broke spring - the owners had info from dealer & had not measured parts themselves. Mechanic who first sussed the problem says he has seen no further breakages after fitting correct size spring boss. I'm hoping he's right. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hagan Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 It's not a difficult job, but a bit fiddly. You need short allen key, circlip pliers, & a method of pulling the plate. It could be bodged roadside but unless I had to, I wouldn't. **** KB 35601[/snapback] Now you tell me. I just back from a 2K (great) ride in Ga., S.C., N.C., Va., W.Va., Md, & Pa., mountains. Whole time I carried with me an extra spring, your directions, and all the right tools. I also shamelessly and selfishly prayed to be spared. I was. Now at 13K+. Dealer is doing 12K service next week, and, tho I'll be out of town, I'll ask 'em to check yet again on boss size. When I get my !@#$%^ garage built, I'll give you a more definitive answer (with pics!) as to my boss size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Now you tell me. I just back from a 2K (great) ride in Ga., S.C., N.C., Va., W.Va., Md, & Pa., mountains. Whole time I carried with me an extra spring, your directions, and all the right tools. I also shamelessly and selfishly prayed to be spared. I was. Now at 13K+. Dealer is doing 12K service next week, and, tho I'll be out of town, I'll ask 'em to check yet again on boss size. When I get my !@#$%^ garage built, I'll give you a more definitive answer (with pics!) as to my boss size. 35643[/snapback] I definitely would do it, and carry the few parts needed just in case, but I'm reckoning that the problem is solved. I would recommend that anyone with an unmodified bike in the questionable period should check the spring/arm parts as a precaution. Steve should see all the info posted in FAQ. Once again, the 'Roadside Repair' pics are on this webpage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hagan Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I definitely would do it, and carry the few parts needed just in case, but I'm reckoning that the problem is solved. I would recommend that anyone with an unmodified bike in the questionable period should check the spring/arm parts as a precaution. Steve should see all the info posted in FAQ. Once again, the 'Roadside Repair' pics are on this webpage. 35693[/snapback] My apologies for not crediting you for the info. Thanks ... again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 If the shift return spring happens to fail, how 'fixable' is it? In other words, in reading through tons of posts I don't see that anyone's had to pull their tranny to fix it. It sounds like there's a sideplate that comes off and you can just change springs roadside if necessary, but being careful to line things up properly. Yes? Or, is it a major pain in the a$$ to fix... And/or can it really be done properly roadside... 35590[/snapback] as discussed before – Yes it can be done roadside. Now I've done the dirty business for real though. It's just a pity that the spring turned out not to be broken! The first hundred miles of my journey to the Erin were successive road works and traffic jams. I've never seen the Belfast - Dublin roads so bad. There was much riding in second and third gear through packed traffic. Gear changes got harder, then coming away from first toll approaching Dublin, I couldn't get above second gear at all. Brainwashed by V.11Lemans.com, I naturally assumed the worst. Well, I couldn't quite believe that the spring had broken again, as I've been convinced that the original cause is fixed. However, couldn't see anything else wrong. The shift linkage looked ok. So I went for the internal inspection. The cover's bottom left allen screw, that is pig-difficult to access at the best of times, is now impossible to get at because the Quat-d box inlet pipe stub completely obscures the slight angle of approach past the bracing tube. So header pipe has to come off to allow the box & pipe to be prised down slightly. Access is just possible and I can't be bothered taking the whole Quat box off to make it easier. Anyhows: spring turns out to be fine. What could be balking the up-change? Has anyone found this change mech / gearbox to be sensitive to: oil level oil weight (can of worms) temperature (was getting very little cooling air flow) ? Having lost a few hours by the side of the motorway, I put it all back together and limped on from petrol station to petrol station, vainly looking for gearbox oil. As I couldn't see any other problem, I figured that maybe the oil level was a bit low and causing the problem. Eventually found a coach-hire garage that would dispense some of their gear-oil. Then I realised that there isn't an allen key in the Guzzi tool kit to fit the gearbox filler plug... To be continued elsewhere... But please, any similar experiences or theories on what is wrong? All settings and links look as good as they have been, but maybe it is, in fact, just a simple matter of the linkage adjustments needing to be reset for some reason???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbdicker Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Had 2 springs go. After the first one, I checked this site and knew to change out the linkage piece. Unfortunately, the part number for the new piece sent me a piece with the same incorrect boss size. I didn't realize it until the spring broke again and I had the mechanic measure the boss size of the replaced part. I chronicled all of this here somewhere............. meanwhile, I got the linkage arm off the list for a Ballabio as per the suggestion of the guys at MPH cycles. I also put in the aftermarket spring that some of the guys were touting here as 'heavier duty'. Now I'm hoping the problem is permanently solved. roadside repair would have to be done with the bike nearly flat on it's side to avoid spilling out all the gear oil. (unless you're carrying extra gear oil with you). Is it possible? I guess. Is it likely? Not by me. you could limp into any shop and give a call to Motointernational or MPH and they'd walk you through a spring change. First time it snapped, I was in fourth gear. Second time, it was second gear. If you gotta pick one gear..........make it fourth.........you barely need another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Has anyone found this change mech / gearbox to be sensitive to: temperature (was getting very little cooling air flow) 91837[/snapback] Absolutely yes. Mine becomes balky, sticky and generally recalcitrant once it gets very hot. I put this down to the oil thinning out, and the clearances within the box changing with the heat. I am going to try Redline shockproof heavy in there, but am resigned to living with it. If it is really bad on yours, try putting some moly additive in the tranny. May just give enough slip when hot to improve matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 roadside repair would have to be done with the bike nearly flat on it's side to avoid spilling out all the gear oil. (unless you're carrying extra gear oil with you). Is it possible? I guess. Is it likely? ...you could limp into any shop and give a call to Motointernational or MPH and they'd walk you through a spring change.91846[/snapback] sorry, dbd, maybe the post was confusing: I wasn't asking the question, I was just answering it again, having done the work in a 'real-life' situation this time. I just resurrected this thread to say – 'here is the job done, actually by the roadside in real life, with whatever tools I carry on the bike'. It has been discussed before, and I had done the full job at home and posted the process with accompanying pictures – as if it was out at the roadside – but I thought it was interesting to comment on the situation that arose last weekend, and show a picture. The only difference is that I didn't need to replace the spring this time. That's the easy bit anyway. All the nuisance work is getting through the strip-down as far as taking the transmission cover off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Absolutely yes. Mine becomes balky, sticky and generally recalcitrant once it gets very hot. I put this down to the oil thinning out, and the clearances within the box changing with the heat. I am going to try Redline shockproof heavy in there, but am resigned to living with it. 91856[/snapback] It's interesting to hear that. It's the same experience and the same conclusion. After this incident, I resolved to get this magical Redline Heavy as well. When I mentioned it at the Erin though, I was told that it is actually a very light oil (despite its name). ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 It's interesting to hear that. It's the same experience and the same conclusion.After this incident, I resolved to get this magical Redline Heavy as well. When I mentioned it at the Erin though, I was told that it is actually a very light oil (despite its name). ? 91913[/snapback] It has some kind of solid lubricant suspended in it, and it is this that makes it "cure" leaks and gives it the very high EP rating for its (relatively) lower base oil viscosity. I think it is quite a heavy base oil though. As an alternative to Redline, why don't you try some Molyslip Green additive in the conventional oil for a couple of thousand miles and see how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 ...I resolved to get this magical Redline Heavy as well... Belfast - did you check the shift plate travel adjuster (acorn nut on outside)? I've had the Redline Shockproof Heavy in for a while. Seems good. No longer leaks. I haven't checked temp but others say it runs cooler. Nogbad, you were worried about bearing skid with this oil??? I talked with Redline tech who assured me it would work well: "HS is a 75w90 oil, but has an EP rating of 250 - way higher than a conventional 90 weight with the moly added". KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Belfast - did you check the shift plate travel adjuster (acorn nut on outside)? 92043[/snapback] I didn't try adjusting anything, by the roadside. It all 'looked ok', i.e. nothing had come loose. (That's why I went for the bit that I couldn't see – an internal inspection of the selector mech including the spring.) I will go through all the adjustments though, when I get some time, as something must have gone off a bit. Ever since this incident, I have been wondering again about your comments – that the box shifts better on the race track. I was particularly thinking about it because the conditions that I was in when it wouldn't work were the direct opposite of racetrack conditions: very little cooling airflow, slow riding with gears chopping up and down in second and third for miles on end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Transmission isn't much fun in those conditions. 1/2/3 aren't favourites. Tontis are the same so I don't know wether it's this gearbox design or just nature of heavy engine internals, big clutch (single plate is v direct take up too) & shaft drive. Lower speeds/lower gears make more of a meal of inertia of the moving parts? And they have never liked getting hot. I like the Redline. Probably better on track cos your using higher gears anyhow, & with less interruption in the momentum of all moving parts? You're changing quick & working the motor to match. Tend to be a bit lazier on the road... It's not a clutch problem is it... ? KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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