Baldini Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 ...Predictable, controllable slides in the dry, wet, soft, slippery - it doesn't matter, just keep on the power & ride thru it! I've been getting 5-6K/4-5K, F/R .... errr...you sure??? KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I picked up some Pirelli Scorpion Sync's for my guzzi the original Dragons on there got 8500mi but I really should have changed them out 1000mi ago. I really like the look of these scorpions they look like off-road tires specificaly made for naked bikes. Or so they say. I'll give an update on how they ride & wear once I Get them on. I'm sorry I can't ride through the winter in Minnesota I don't care who you are. it can't be done. OHH you might take it out a day here or a day there but psh Take a look they're neat. and not the price listed got them both for $200 http://www.partscanada.ca/catalogue/2004/m...56/index19.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 errr...you sure??? KB 43174[/snapback] Well, I reckon I'm just about as sure as I can be, I'm on my 2nd set. To be sure, there are stickier tires and there are longer-lasting tires. There are likely better handling tires too, though in my experience, not by a very large margin. No one in their right mind would select these tires for the track, where many "sport tires" seem to be evaluated these days. OTOH, no one in their right mind would select racing tires for the roads I ride either, though this doesn't seem to deter some of the local squids around here who're evidently so inclined . I don't race, so the ranking order in the latest moto magazine track evaluation of "sport tires" is of little interest to me. As far as I'm concerned there are few desirable traits in common between good track tires and good road tires. For my purposes, the M-1's seem to have the best combination of trade-offs between handling, durability, grip, and predictability approaching the limit, especially including marginal traction conditions and uneven surfaces - in other words, "real-world" road conditions. The last is what I like the best about the M-1's. I love 'em. What's been your experience? Ratchethack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 ...For my purposes, the M-1's seem to have the best combination of trade-offs between handling, durability, grip, and predictability approaching the limit, especially including marginal traction conditions and uneven surfaces - in other words, "real-world" road conditions. The last is what I like the best about the M-1's. I love 'em. What's been your experience? Ratchethack, I've never tried them. Sounds like perhaps I should. Metzeler/Pirelli are same co now & I think Diablos/Metzelers share same carcass, different tread pattern/compound. I've been happy with Diablos but would always like more, esp in conditions you describe. I have used Metzelers years back (crossply) & found they would last longer but offer less grip & feel than equivalent Pirelli, so I carry that thru to now I guess. Another tyre I want to try is the Michelin Pilot (Sport I think?- there's so many different versions of tyres I get mixed up). I believe it is real grippy & appears to have a more triangular profile than the Diablos which would help turn in for my Scura on 5.5" rim. (Do you run a 160 or 170 on the 4.5"?) You tried Michelins? I never used racing tyres outside of a racetrack. What puzzled me was that you should be riding so hard, pushing the tyre, sliding on the power n'all that yet still be getting 50% more tyre life than I can. Every other time I heard someone talk about power sliding on the road then I see them ride it turned out they were just exagerating. It's not something I can do, sure at the limit the tyres'll go away a little but no way do I wanna follow them with the power, even if I could - not on a 500lb bike on the road. I can't see that the V11 makes the power to do this in the dry anyhow. As for sliding under power on the road in the wet, on one of these - well I'd pay to see that. Last time I tried it, after watching Freddie Spencer show how it goes I ended up sliding down the road on me arse with rainwater running down me pushrod tunnels thru the hole in me valve cover... No offence intended. KB . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I fully agree KB- whenever I have pushed a Guzzi really hard in the dry, I find the rear always digs in and grips nicely. The only time I have ever experienced slides is in the wet, or on loose stuff like gravel where it is simply a case of me cocking up and giving it too much welly then saying "oh shit" as I luckily correct it. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Ratchethack, Do you run a 160 or 170 on the 4.5"? What puzzled me was that you should be riding so hard, pushing the tyre, sliding on the power n'all that yet still be getting 50% more tyre life than I can. Every other time I heard someone talk about power sliding on the road then I see them ride it turned out they were just exagerating. No offence intended. 43238[/snapback] Hey Baldini, Yep, 160/60 on the 4.5". Never tried Michelins. None taken! I get fairly decent mileage, maybe because I tend to ride smoothly even when "pushing it" in the mountains (let's also call it "pushing it moderately" - I'm a self-described Sport Geezer), weigh 175, and don't carry much gear. If I seemed to imply that I'm powersliding like Freddy, this would be a whopping hallucination. That's not at all what I meant, though I b'lieve that a more aggressive (& more talented!) rider could have a lot of fun powersliding these tires. In fact, the power delivery of the Guz would seem to invite this. One aspect of the M-1's that I really like is that you get such good feedback that when the bike approaches the limit you're not tempted to reflexively chop the throttle. You can stay on the power and the tires seem to naturally find usable partial traction, allowing you to hold your line in a controlled manner. Though I have felt this happening on 100% dry pavement on an occasional basis (ya just gotta love this), for me it especially seems to work well more often and in a more limited way when hitting loose & wet patches, where other tires I've ridden would have simply let go with little or no warning (BTDT). Those surprise mini-slides that seem to come out of nowhere tend to produce unwanted antics & reduce control everywhere, including the primary sphincter. I don't get that much with the M-1's. Steeltoe's observation brought marginal traction conditions to mind that sounded a lot like the mountain conditions near where I live, though from his description it sounds like he chopped the throttle and lost it a bit before his tires bit. Sounded a lot like situations I've been in where staying on the gas would have been the call (no offense, Steeltoe!) I think a great term for M-1's might be, "forgiving" - I think of 'em as "reality tires for the Sport Geezer". Miles O'Smiles. Ratchethack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Well, I reckon I'm just about as sure as I can be, I'm on my 2nd set. 43191[/snapback] IOW, you're going by the transmission driven odometer, vs. a proper front-wheel driven one, so that the inflated mileage recorded by your much-spun rear-wheel is the tread-life you think you're getting, vs. the real mileage you're getting out of your tires which at this time is unknown. Get yourself a bicycle computer & mount it up, and record the starting mileage on your odo. When the tire is finally toast & you're due to replace it, subtract the starting mileage from the current odo reading, & then compare the result with the odometer on the bicycle computer. There will be a discrepancy; how large a one is the question that remains unanswered... With your claims of consistent power-sliding, I'd imagine it'll be pretty big.[0] Ride on! [0] An acquaintance from the LABikers likes to steer with the rear wheel; his self-reported tire mileage runs about 2-3K on a Bike with an uncorrected oem front-wheel driven odo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziHutch Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hey Ratchethack, Thanks for your excellent and very informational review of the Metzler M-1. The bulk of my riding is done in the western NC hill and mountain terrain where pavement conditions can go from dry to wet to dry all in the same corner. Your analysis of the Metzlers makes me believe they would perform well in that environment. I too am a "Sports Geezer" and years ago I ran Metzlers on an ‘83 Honda V45 Interceptor. I believe they were ME33 and ME99s. That heavy bike with those tires would also slide rear or front and rear together in a very controlled fashion. Not necessarily something I would aim to do but once an event occurred it was predictable and controllable and ultimately became very repeatable and even repeatable in a safe manner when no traffic existed. Also, riding in the rain was great practice for riding near the limits of traction in the dry because the bike and tires seemed to act pretty much the same way wet or dry once traction broke, except of course that this occurred at much lower speeds in the wet. Is that the kind of thing you are talking about with the Guzzi and the M-1s? I must also say that I was never able to consistently recreate this phenomenon with later model sport bikes such as Ducati. I guess the traction limits are so much higher and I, being a geezer, didn’t approached the limits of the more modern machinery with anywhere near the same frequency. Make sense? You may have convinced me M-1s are the way to go. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hey Skeeve, I don't recall making claims of consistent rear wheel spinning or power-sliding. I don't think that staying on the gas in a drift necessarily implies either one. But then, I don't need a front wheel speedo to figure out that YMMV either. Rgds., Ratchethack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hey Ratchethack, riding in the rain was great practice for riding near the limits of traction in the dry because the bike and tires seemed to act pretty much the same way wet or dry once traction broke, except of course that this occurred at much lower speeds in the wet. Is that the kind of thing you are talking about with the Guzzi and the M-1s? Joe 43253[/snapback] Yeah, that's it, Joe. I think we're on the same track, so to speak. Not that there's necessarily any correlation here, but I learned to slide a motorcycle in the dirt 30 some years back on a Bultaco 250 Pursang. It was an outdated and well-used motocross bike when I got it. Controlled feet-up slides in the sweepers were it's forte. The tires? Metzeler. I went thru a few sets. I don't remember the model but they were the "small knob" tires for "hard-pan" dirt. Outstanding on fire roads in the mountains. I've always liked Metz. Sort of the "sleeper" conservative tire Co., nothin' "trendy" about 'em. I run Metz Tourance on my XT600 dual sport thumper & really like these too. Rgds., Ratchethack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 ...One aspect of the M-1's that I really like is that you get such good feedback that when the bike approaches the limit ...etc Ratchethack, I like Diablos for same reason, probably similar experience. Agree about riding smooth. I also learned to ride on the dirt, best place - you can get away w/ all sorts of stuff you can't on the road, teaches you loads. Years back ME33/99 or Phantoms were tyres to have... Still like riding on skinny tyres on my Tonti...bigger isn't always better What's a "geezer" over there - an old man? KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Barrett Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 I also learned to ride on the dirt, best place - you can get away w/ all sorts of stuff you can't on the road, teaches you loads. Me too, though Trials. Taught me mainly how to fall off. I crash really well. Very relaxed about it. In total 5 times on the bike all single vehicle accidents all but one due to ice (day time) or change of surface gravel or mud (night time), just the one through inattention going in to a roundabout a speed, lost the front I think, not sure wasn't paying attention, mind was else where. Just the once in the car where nodded off briefly, just enougth to catch the inside kerb start a bounce, unable to correct, and off into the field end over end. Just relax in to the seat. Anyone want a lift? Serriously nothing for over 10 years. Offroading teaches loads about change in surfaces, machine control and balance. Before any of my boys or daughter hit the streets they will be going off road first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Me too, though Trials.... Martin - you still ride? I got a 250 Gas Gas few years back - amazing what it'll do. Very occasionally I'll potter around on it aiming only not to be last or fall from a great height... The stuff they get up - I just can't believe what I'm seeing.... KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Barrett Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 you still ride? No, but I've got in the garage my dads old Bultaco Sherpa T and an ex works Fantic 301 mono shock a hybrid between two models. Both need a bit of work but will sort out so that the eldest can develop machine skills before he hits the road at 16. As we live in a moderate sized town he doesn't ride his pedalcycle much, and his legs seem decorative, he won't have developed much road sense. It fact at 13 I don't think hes got much or any sense at all Bet my dad used to say the same. My Mums got a bit of land on the edge of the new forest and the Southampton Vikings hold a trial there (or have a few sections) a couple of times a year. So will trailer them down there for a weekend of mudplugging and naggery. not to be last That allways was my objective, Helped by at the time I rode a Yamaha TY175 and my mate used the Bultaco. Machines of different eras. I never trialed the Fantic competively. It was as a bigger leap forward from the TY as that from the Bultaco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 ...Both need a bit of work.. Yeh..."...one day...when I got a bit of time..."KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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