robbiekb Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Hey all, Well i finally had the time to take the Goose out this weekend, so with the better half out of town i went for a blast up to Malibu, turning right onto Mulholland in search of some twisties that one of my friends had told me about (yeah yeah i've been here almost 4 months and havent been riding the santa monica canyons yet **grins**) Well I have to say that the roads up there are really superb. Very tight in places and it felt great to slowly get into somewhat of a rythym. I backed off significantly after having my rear tire step out on some drifted sand but to be honest I found that the snatchiness of the throttle response (even with my PC3) made it hard to be smooth in the very low gear turns. I also found that I was locking up the back wheel a lot going into turns, even with "fairly aggresive" throttle blipping, and i always thought i had fairly good throttle control ! I've been keeping the revs high (approx 6k rpm) for more aggressive cornering but i'm wondering if anyone else has a better idea for these kind of tight low gear turns ? Looking for the Rock Store, somehow i managed to drive past it !!! and ended up near 101 where i was introduced to our friendly CHP "95 mph in a 45 crossing double yellows up hill whilst overtaking a chevvy truck and a riced out golf sir ?" To make matters worse I had taken the plastic wrapped licence and prrof of registration out at the same time i took out my toolkit in case they got nicked when i trsailored the bike down here from Seattle and forgotten to put them back...ack !!!! ....as luck would have it, the two motorbike cops decided to not give me a ticket, probably because they must have seen that the reason i overtook inthe first place was to avoid getting sideswiped by the riced out golf...they never said anything about it, but it's the only reason i could think of for not ticketing me, well maybe that and that i was doing the speed limit when they came after me showing that perhaps i wasnt out and about "hot-rodding" as one cop called it, ..damm nice i thought...oh yes and I stopped the instant that i saw the flashing lights (although it did take a damm long time for those kawasaki's to catch me ) switched off the engine and took off my helmet.... ah well on the way home i did finally find the Rock Store and stopepd to check out some cool older BMW's and a couple of triumphs. A guy also showed up on the new harley street rod, not my cup of tea but he was stoked on it and thats all that counts. More twisties on the way home and back to the Palisades in time for dinner now if i can just figure out where i'm going wrong in the super tight corners and get everything smoothed out i'll be a happy camper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hey all, Well i finally had the time to take the Goose out this weekend, so with the better half out of town i went for a blast up to Malibu, turning right onto Mulholland in search of some twisties that one of my friends had told me about (yeah yeah i've been here almost 4 months and havent been riding the santa monica canyons yet **grins**) Well I have to say that the roads up there are really superb. Very tight in places and it felt great to slowly get into somewhat of a rythym. I backed off significantly after having my rear tire step out on some drifted sand but to be honest I found that the snatchiness of the throttle response (even with my PC3) made it hard to be smooth in the very low gear turns. I also found that I was locking up the back wheel a lot going into turns, even with "fairly aggresive" throttle blipping, and i always thought i had fairly good throttle control ! I've been keeping the revs high (approx 6k rpm) for more aggressive cornering but i'm wondering if anyone else has a better idea for these kind of tight low gear turns ? Looking for the Rock Store, somehow i managed to drive past it !!! and ended up near 101 where i was introduced to our friendly CHP "95 mph in a 45 crossing double yellows up hill whilst overtaking a chevvy truck and a riced out golf sir ?" To make matters worse I had taken the plastic wrapped licence and prrof of registration out at the same time i took out my toolkit in case they got nicked when i trsailored the bike down here from Seattle and forgotten to put them back...ack !!!! ....as luck would have it, the two motorbike cops decided to not give me a ticket, probably because they must have seen that the reason i overtook inthe first place was to avoid getting sideswiped by the riced out golf...they never said anything about it, but it's the only reason i could think of for not ticketing me, well maybe that and that i was doing the speed limit when they came after me showing that perhaps i wasnt out and about "hot-rodding" as one cop called it, ..damm nice i thought...oh yes and I stopped the instant that i saw the flashing lights (although it did take a damm long time for those kawasaki's to catch me ) switched off the engine and took off my helmet.... ah well on the way home i did finally find the Rock Store and stopepd to check out some cool older BMW's and a couple of triumphs. A guy also showed up on the new harley street rod, not my cup of tea but he was stoked on it and thats all that counts. More twisties on the way home and back to the Palisades in time for dinner now if i can just figure out where i'm going wrong in the super tight corners and get everything smoothed out i'll be a happy camper 45482[/snapback] Maybe try about 5k rpm in the tight turns? 6 sounds a little high maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orson Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 to be honest I found that the snatchiness of the throttle response (even with my PC3) made it hard to be smooth in the very low gear turns. 45482[/snapback] I have the same problem in tight, tight slow stuff like, 10 mph hairpins, where you have to back off the throttle then get back on it. Maybe those curves just aren't Guzzi's forte. I'm also interested if anyone has any ideas. It absolutely loves fast sweepers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 ...I was locking up the back wheel a lot going into turns, even with "fairly aggresive" throttle blipping, and i always thought i had fairly good throttle control ! I've been keeping the revs high (approx 6k rpm) for more aggressive cornering but i'm wondering if anyone else has a better idea for these kind of tight low gear turns ?.... Try higher gear: 3 - 5K (wherever throttle response is smoothest) on a trailing,closed or steady throttle. Higher gear's gonna be smoother, & smoother = quicker. Get gear selected before leaning in, closed/trailing throttle til mid corner then slowly on throttle for exit. Smooth transitions on/off brakes, clutch, throttle. Cover the clutch & dip it if necessary in really tight stuff or if you haven't got the gear. How you mean locking up the rear - in a straight line or it's stepping out as you lean in on brakes? Locking on engine braking or rear brake? Closed throttle? Sounds like you're changing down too many, &/or too much rear brake. Sounds like a great place to ride. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiekb Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hi Baldini, So i'm locking the back wheel up under engine breaking. I cannae remember the last time that i used the rear brake on my Sport, well actually i can, i use it when i'm riding around the carpark or cones or whatever but thats about it. You're right in that backing off and closing throttle or using a higher gear gets you round, but not at the kind of speeds that i was pushing for. I was kind of relying on the gyroscopic effect of turning high rpms to keep me leaned way over. I have to agree with Orson in that the longer sweepers tend to be easier to dial in and that the technical hairpins take a bit more gentleness on the throttle hand. Wonder if RacerX has seen this thread ? I need to go do some track days with him as it'd be an intensely satisying experience to get it right in those super tight hairpins... don't even mention the super tight "bumpy" hairpins I also want to say that i've never ever locked up the back wheel under regular riding using engine braking, it's just when i'm pushing hard and and braking, downshifting aggressively, usually when following a faster , more balanced japanese inline 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 A few things can cause the feeling you are having in the tight stuff. One is rider smoothness (which I have not mastered yet ) and another could be too low of a gear. I have also noticed that the tune of a bike makes a big difference in the smoothness of the engine with throttle control. Some bikes come on smooth while some hit with a big surge in power. Very hard to be smooth at throttle openings. What could cause this? I believe that when the bike is dynoed for power, not everything shows up on the graph. Meaning, what happens between off throttle and back on throttle. It seems to me that a richer fuel mixture tends to smooth out the harshness of throttle response, I could be wrong, what do you think? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiekb Posted March 8, 2005 Author Share Posted March 8, 2005 hi mike, i think it's a combo of things going on....too snatchy fueling on our bikes shows up at low speed, that on/off thing with the throttle really contributes to driveline lash and nastyiness in the shaft drive area of things... but....I think the biggest thing though is that i'm probably "between gearing" in what i'm trying to accomplish. A faster smoother rider that knows the road would probably push into these corners in second carrying lots more momentum and with still keeping revs up. Because i dont know the road, but i'm trying to push anyways, second gear with high revs is past my "oh shit" factor on some of those corners for now whereas i'm probably going too fast for the quick downshift to first, hence the locking of the rear wheel under shifting. I bet my body position is too far forward as well, unloading the rear tire. second gear with lower revs would obviously be nae good as i wouldnt have enough gyroscopic effect to get leaned over enough to get roudn the corner safely... It all adds to the fun and it's a great learning experience. If there's anyone on the forum that rides mulholland frequently i'd be dead interested to see what they do on some of those hairpins in terms of gearing and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 robbiekb, Dunno about gyroscopic forces...but I know if you're out with Jap sports bikes you don't play by their rules. Use what a Guzzis good at, smoothness is everything - Clearly you're changing down at too high road speed for the revs - stick to higher gear (noise doesn't = speed) & use torque to get out of corner while they're going thru the box & worrying about highsiding. There's not always a perfect gear but the clutch can smooth things out. In tight stuff, really pushing on, you would be either on a closed throttle (up to apex) or a smoothly opening throttle (to exit) - no part throttle really...so mid-corner throttle response shouldn't come into it - it's only when you're trying to get on throttle smoothly to exit where that becomes a problem. Another thing, you don't really make up or lose time mid-corner in slow corners (unless you balls it up,) - You can make up on brakes & exiting but not mid corner - cos of slow speeds it doesn't matter much. It's fast sweepers/combinations & flowing series' where the gaps open up cos of corner speed. Try different lines? On a clear road with plenty visibility you can use a lot of road. On slow tight stuff "slow in, fast out", squaring it off - go in very deep, lay it over hard, straighten up & get on power - works, even on these things! A track day'll teach you loads very fast if you never did one before. It's more different to the road than you might imagine. But an equal rider who knows what he's doing & trying hard on a Jap sportster is always gonna have the legs on your Guzzi - everywhere....but then - he's got no excuse!!! Take it easy KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orson Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 stick to higher gear (noise doesn't = speed) & use torque to get out of corner 45537[/snapback] That sounds like a good idea. I'll try 2nd gear next time I encounter a 10 mph hairpin. Sampling Guzzi torque always brings a smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 It's hard to be smooth or even prepared if you don't know the road. Drive it 4 or 5 more times, then worry about going faster. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dkgross Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 fine..ride the twisties without me. fine. :>) ps..made some calls to Jo T and others this week..will follow up soon. Thanks again for the hospitality. I enjoyed my trip! Go Turtles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 ...I'll try 2nd gear next time I encounter a 10 mph hairpin... first is very low - don't think i use it on the road other than for starting off - just makes things more hectic. really learn the bike & you'll feel at home on any road cos when things go strange least one thing will be familiar.... KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 You should never be on a neutral or trailing throttle in a bend. Slow down enough before turning so you can be on the gas all the way round and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badmotogoozer Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Closed throttle to apex doesn't work for me on this bike. If my rev's aren't high cornering is erratic, hard to keep the line I choose. Rev's up over 5K and she corners on rails. After apex roll it on smooth and a quick gear change. My rear tire locked up quite often on engine break and downshift (with a nice little kick out to the side, change the line just enough for a good pucker on the seat) the first bit I had it. Advanced rider course on the track and got that all sorted out wth the revs thing. It was all me. Slamming the trottle off hard just before turn = rear lock and skip, also downshift with lots of revs same result. Keep the revs up! cheers, Rj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 You should never be on a neutral or trailing throttle in a bend. Slow down enough before turning so you can be on the gas all the way round and out. 45597[/snapback] perhaps there's some misunderstanding here but I don't see how you're gonna get around a bend quick if you're accelerating before you apex...just means you coulda gone in faster... ...& how do you get round downhill bends??? ...I could be talking out my arse cos the bike's in the shed & i'm sat here, buggered if i can ever explain how i do anything - but it works for me - whatever gets you round. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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