Help with difference between Le Mans 2002-03?

[Guest Adrenal]

Hi all,

 

What a great forum. Good on you Jaap and whoever else was involved in stating it up. It's been feeding my current obsession beautifully.

 

I'm looking at a Le Mans which is advertised as a 2003. The owner says that its build date is actually Dec 2002 but has all the 2003 changes/enhancements. Mmmm..... ??

 

Need advice on how confirm what changes were made by Dec 2002. ie Gearbox issues sorted or not? Paint issues sorted or not? etc. Any enhancements compared to early 2002? The owner said that fork diameter had been increased for his model but was hazy on any other details.

 

I suppose best thing to do is to get engine number/ VIN number and check against a data base of some sort - If such a resource is readily available to us punters. I've been trawling around for info and have learnt about WHAT the nastier issues are but not really WHEN they occured. Also WHEN changes/enhancements were made.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[dlaing]

Excellent question!

Was Al R. or somebody working on an FAQ of model changes?

The only thing I remember, is the front crossover(balance pipe) and the raised compression, and enhanced oil delivery to the piston or cylinder or something, and maybe they increased the thickness of the front axle...(was that when they switched to a hollow axle?)

Here are some other questions:

When did they brace up the frame, and slow down the steering?

When did they put the fuel pump in the fuel tank?

When did they go to a 180/70-17 rear tire?

What bikes had the single plate or dual plate clutches?

When did they switch from white to black instruments?

When did they use black engine cases?

When did they use red frames?

When did they modify the front forks? Some of the Marzocchis had threaded in axle, some had gold nitride, some had solid , and some hollow front axles.

One great thing about Guzzi is they change things slowly, and mostly as needed to improve the bike.

Sorry about hi-jacking the thread.

[antonio carroccio]

Excellent question!

Was Al R. or somebody working on an FAQ of model changes?

The only thing I remember, is the front crossover(balance pipe) and the raised compression, and enhanced oil delivery to the piston or cylinder or something, and maybe they increased the thickness of the front axle...(was that when they switched to a hollow axle?)

Here are some other questions:

When did they brace up the frame, and slow down the steering? 2001

When did they put the fuel pump in the fuel tank? dunno..

When did they go to a 180/70-17 rear tire?2001/2002

What bikes had the single plate or dual plate clutches?2001/2002

When did they switch from white to black instruments?2003/2004

When did they use black engine cases?2001/2002

When did they use red frames?until 2001

When did they modify the front forks? Some of the Marzocchis had threaded in axle, some had gold nitride, some had solid , and some hollow front axles.

One great thing about Guzzi is they change things slowly, and mostly as needed to improve the bike.

Sorry about hi-jacking the thread.

57279[/snapback]

 

I hope I am right...

[Guest Adrenal]

Well hyjacked dl. As long as my 2002-03 lemans queries get the first gurnsey! Certainly a big candidate for a FAQ I would think.

Sorry Antonio, 'I hope I'm right...' just don't cut the mustard.

The most authoritative source would be MG themselves. But how, who ....

Somewhere out there, there's a Guzzi Guru with this info at their fingertips

[orangeokie]

Hi all,

 

What a great forum. Good on you Jaap and whoever else was involved in stating it up. It's been feeding my current obsession beautifully.

 

I'm  looking at a Le Mans which is advertised as a 2003. The owner says that its build date is actually Dec 2002 but has all the 2003 changes/enhancements. Mmmm..... ??

 

Need advice on how confirm what changes were made by Dec 2002. . . .

57277[/snapback]

 

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. Been plowing this great site for a few weeks now, studying up on MG's prior to buying one of these beauties. Here's what I've gleaned while doing my homework . . .

 

1. Factory crossover pipe was added to LeMans in '03. Stucchi has aftermarket crossover that can be added to pre-'03 models.

 

2. '03 LeMans has hollow axle (except for Rosso Corsa which has solid axle).

 

3. '03 LeMans (all) have upgraded (satin smooth) black painted engine cases. '02 have the crinkle black finish that is prone to flake off.

 

4. '03 LeMans have black-faced instruments.

 

5. '03 LeMans colors come in all red and black/grey combo. Rosso Corsa has red/grey chekerboard plus the Ohlins bits.

[antonio carroccio]

Adrenal, you have got a point there.

Next time I will shut up...!!!

 

That's a good sign to make some mess again in some topic

[Skeeve]

The only thing I remember, is the front crossover(balance pipe) and the raised compression, and enhanced oil delivery to the piston or cylinder or something, and maybe they increased the thickness of the front axle...(was that when they switched to a hollow axle?)

Here are some other questions:

When did they brace up the frame, and slow down the steering?

When did they put the fuel pump in the fuel tank?

When did they go to a 180/70-17 rear tire?

What bikes had the single plate or dual plate clutches?

When did they switch from white to black instruments?

When did they use black engine cases?

When did they use red frames?

When did they modify the front forks? Some of the Marzocchis had threaded in axle, some had gold nitride, some had solid , and some hollow front axles.

 

[Dates are model years; I dunno if Guzzi does like other vendors here in the U.S. where m.y. begins in Sept. of the preceding calendar year, ie: m.y. 1999 cars/bikes/whatnot began becoming available late Sept. of 1998.]

 

Front xfer pipe: 2003+

Oil jets to underside of piston: (improved cooling & resistance to detonation) 2003+

Raised compression: (marketing hyperbole; year irrelevant) 2003+

Front axle dia.: ????

Frame: (longer & rake +1deg) 2002+ (? - uncertain, but believe this is correct per Dave @ M.I.)

Fuel pump: (moved to inside tank to cure vaporlock issues) 2003+

Rear rim:(jumped from 5" to 5.5" width) 2002+

Single plate clutches: [ignoring cruiser models] Scura, Tenni, Rosso Mandello (? - need confirmation on RM, but think I recall reference to the RM coming w/ a 1-plate.)

Instruments: (white to black faces) 2003+

Black engine cases: 2001+ (versions of black vary, due to process problems.)

Red frames: 2000 only ("Telaio Rosso" tribute to the 1st V7 sport factory speed record & semi-factory roadrace models back in 1970)

Forks: (varies by model) - Tenni: TiN (gold) stanchions, 53?mm vs. 52mm for regular 2002 LM (the dimensional variation may be incorrect, I'm working from memory. Bueller?)

Bathtub heads: still waiting! Hemi's are great for 4-valvole, but wedge or bathtub heads make 2v heads more efficient...

 

Alright, that's my effort at starting a faq; anyone care to confirm/deny/fill in the blanks?

[orangeokie]

The only thing I remember, is the front crossover(balance pipe) and the raised compression, and enhanced oil delivery to the piston or cylinder or something, and maybe they increased the thickness of the front axle...(was that when they switched to a hollow axle?)

Here are some other questions:

When did they brace up the frame, and slow down the steering?

When did they put the fuel pump in the fuel tank?

When did they go to a 180/70-17 rear tire?

What bikes had the single plate or dual plate clutches?

When did they switch from white to black instruments?

When did they use black engine cases?

When did they use red frames?

When did they modify the front forks? Some of the Marzocchis had threaded in axle, some had gold nitride, some had solid , and some hollow front axles.

 

[Dates are model years; I dunno if Guzzi does like other vendors here in the U.S. where m.y. begins in Sept. of the preceding calendar year, ie: m.y. 1999 cars/bikes/whatnot began becoming available late Sept. of 1998.]

 

Front xfer pipe: 2003+

Oil jets to underside of piston: (improved cooling & resistance to detonation) 2003+

Raised compression: (marketing hyperbole; year irrelevant) 2003+

Front axle dia.: ????

Frame: (longer & rake +1deg) 2002+ (? - uncertain, but believe this is correct per Dave @ M.I.)

Fuel pump: (moved to inside tank to cure vaporlock issues) 2003+

Rear rim:(jumped from 5" to 5.5" width) 2002+

Single plate clutches: [ignoring cruiser models] Scura, Tenni, Rosso Mandello (? - need confirmation on RM, but think I recall reference to the RM coming w/ a 1-plate.)

Instruments: (white to black faces) 2003+

Black engine cases: 2001+ (versions of black vary, due to process problems.)

Red frames: 2000 only ("Telaio Rosso" tribute to the 1st V7 sport factory speed record & semi-factory roadrace models back in 1970)

Forks: (varies by model)  - Tenni: TiN (gold) stanchions, 53?mm vs. 52mm for regular 2002 LM (the dimensional variation may be incorrect, I'm working from memory. Bueller?)

Bathtub heads: still waiting! Hemi's are great for 4-valvole, but wedge or bathtub heads make 2v heads more efficient...

 

Alright, that's my effort at starting a faq; anyone care to confirm/deny/fill in the blanks?

57301[/snapback]

 

 

Here are a few exceptions I would take . . .

 

 

Front axle dia.: ???? - - - 2003 except for Rosso Corsa LM

Rear rim:(jumped from 5" to 5.5" width) 2002+ - - - 4.5 inches to 5.5

Red frames: 2000 only - - - Ebayer claims to have red frame '01

[Guest Adrenal]

Great posts! Thanks

My dilemma is that the guy reckons the bike is 2003 spec even though its build date is Dec 2002 (quite possible I suppose). Things like tyre width and balance pipe can be easily checked but oil delivery enhancements not. Really need to have engine number references like are found in Mick Walker and Ian falloon books on other marques (they haven't written one on MG that I've missed have they?).

This info is out there somewhere. Need an MG under cover agent.

[orangeokie]

Great posts! Thanks

My dilemma is that the guy reckons the bike is 2003 spec even though its build date is Dec 2002 (quite possible I suppose). Things like tyre width and balance pipe can be easily checked but oil delivery enhancements not. Really need to have engine number references like are found in Mick Walker and Ian falloon books on other marques (they haven't written one on MG that I've missed have they?).

This info is out there somewhere. Need an MG under cover agent.

57317[/snapback]

 

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - 2002

 

Moto Guzzi Announces Three New Models For 2002: The California Stone, California Special Sport, And V11 Le Mans.

 

Angier, NC--Moto Guzzi North America has introduced three new motorcycle models for 2002. Already rolling out of the Guzzi factory in Mandello del Lario, Italy, the new bikes are expected to arrive in the U.S. sometime in the third quarter of 2001. . .

 

Also new for 2002 is the V11 Le Mans--Moto Guzzi's first semi-streamlined motorcycle, thanks to a half fairing as standard equipment. Like the Stone and Special Sport, the 2002 V11 Le Mans has its roots firmly planted in Italian motorcycling legend, sharing the same pedigree as the original Guzzi 850 and 1000 Le Mans bikes that dominated endurance racing in the 1980's. After an absence of ten years, this historic name is being brought to life again.

 

V11 Le Mans. A Legend Gets New Life.

 

The new Le Mans was born out of the need for performance with greater high-speed driving comfort. With the Model V11 Le Mans, performance remains intact; but the horizons of the driver are expanded. There is greater overall driving comfort, thanks in part to the aerodynamic protection of a half fairing. The traditional Moto Guzzi character and looks remain, but with a greater range for longer trips in style and comfort.

In particular, the engineers at Moto Guzzi have worked to increase stability, with a meticulous tuning of the bike's steering. In the V11 Le Mans, aerodynamic disturbances do not influence motorcycle performance, affording the driver greater control. Its sporty spirit does not spare a single ounce of comfort.

 

The design and color scheme of the V11 Le Mans are also new and impressive--the elegant black color of its motor and the front-end forks, the sophisticated sportier designs in Le Mans Red and Classic Champagne.

 

The Le Mans is powered by the latest version of the V11 90° V twin engine, with 1064cc cubic capacity and two top valves, controlled by rocker arms and push rods. The numbers speak clearly: the 91 HP maximum horsepower is already reached at 7,800 rpm, for an acceleration that satisfies even the most demanding drivers. Maximum speed is approximately 136mph. The 6-speed transmission has reduced longitudinal overall dimensions (under 70 mm), thanks to the exclusive "four-shaft" system. It features easy and quiet clutch engagement, for immediate sensitivity and confidence. Gear-changing is also quick and precise. The clutch is dry dual-disc, with hydraulic control minimising lever stress.

The steel chassis is a great classic, rectangular-section monobeam, with the crankcase performing a semi load-carrying function. Steering deflection precision is guaranteed by the 25° angle of the steering column. The suspension is high-tech, with a Marzocchi USD in the front, having 120 mm range and compression-extension control.

 

The rear suspension is a cantilever system oscillating large fork, with adjustable multi-stage shock absorber. In other words: absolute stability and impeccable road grip, thanks also to the distinctive configuration of the universal joint transmission, which reduces to a minimum the rear-wheel "lifting" typical in this technical solution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - 2003

 

 

 

2003 V11 LeMans Features Updated 90° V-Twin Engine, Sharper Handling

 

Two essential elements are essential for a sporty, safe ride: a powerful engine and a bike capable of getting the best from it. Performance in itself is not enough, manoeuvrability is just as important. To create the 2003 V11 Le Mans, Moto Guzzi engineers have worked in both directions, improving engine characteristics and handling qualities.

 

The V11 Le Mans shares the same pedigree as the original Guzzi 850 and 1000 Le Mans bikes that dominated endurance racing in the 1980's, and which remain close to the hearts of all die-hard fans. First introduced in 2002, the reinvigorated V11 LeMans features a half fairing for a distinctive look and greater overall driving comfort.

 

At the heart of the V11 LeMans is the legendary Moto Guzzi 90° V-twin engine, updated for 2003, with 1064cc displacement and two top valves controlled by light alloy rocker arms and push rods. The 2003 model has a new connecting cross-member between the manifolds of the twin cylinders that allows a better balance between the thermal parts. At medium rpms, where the bike has to give its best, this improvement provides an increase of several horsepower.

 

Another important plus for the 2003 version is a new oil jet system that has been designed for cooling the piston, and a re-designed forged connecting rod, which decidedly improves performance levels in difficult conditions and gives the rod a much longer lifespan.

The muffler has undergone unprecedented treatment, guaranteeing greater resistance to wear and tear. The fuel pump has also been improved, and is now immersed in the tank.

 

The 6-speed transmission has reduced longitudinal overall dimensions (under 70 mm), thanks to the exclusive "four-shaft" system. It features easy and quiet clutch engagement, for immediate sensitivity and confidence. Gear-changing is also quick and precise. The clutch is dry dual-disc, with hydrau

lic control minimising lever stress.

 

The fork shafts of the Marzocchi USD front suspension are beefed up, with an increase in diameter from 40 to 43 mm, and the front wheel spindle also moves up from 20 to 25 mm.

 

With these innovations the front is more rigid and the V11 Le Mans glides around corners quicker and gives better driving "feedback." Steering deflection precision is guaranteed by the 25° angle of the steering column.

 

The rear suspension is a "cantilever" system oscillating large fork, with adjustable multi-stage shock absorber. This system affords absolute stability and impeccable road grip, thanks also to the distinctive configuration of the universal joint transmission, which reduces to a minimum the rear-wheel "lifting" typical in this technical solution.

 

New instruments with black graphics are a touch of class that gives it an even more modern and attractive look. They are also practical, and riders will above all appreciate the immediate readability in all conditions

 

New LeMans colors for 2003 are "Rosso/Nero Race" and the refined and elegant "Grigio Titanium".

[al_roethlisberger]

I was going to do a FAQ, and may still

 

.... but this has been posted/asked soooo many times, that I thought a simple "search" was probably just as easy

 

 

Most of the posts above are correct... by the time they got edited at the end of the thread

 

 

However, the question is actually quite simple because he is talking about a LeMans, not just a Sport/Naked(btw the red frames were 00 and 01), and between 02-03.

 

So, since the LeMans was released as an 02 model, it only has one year of the 00-01 features, along with the changes added in 02(&01 Rosso Mandello, which BTW does have the SP clutch).

 

So that being said, regardless of what model year someone says a questionable 02 or 03 LeMans is, it is super easy to see if it is an 02-spec or 03-spec bike.

 

One thing is the color. The only colors available in 02 were the two tone champagne/black and fire-orange/gray. In 03 they went to a mostly solid red and black, and the checkerboard red Rosso Corsa.

 

The tire width is the same, 5.5 inch.

 

But the engine/drivetrain paint is "fuzzy" black on the 02, and satin/smooth black on the 03.

 

02 LeMans still has the external fuel system and 00/01 style tank with the "chin pad" on top. The 03 model does not have this pad, just a painted stripe on top.

 

The 03 bike will have the front exhaust crossover in front of the alternator.

 

The 03 bike will have the black ITI guages and the 02 will have the white Veglia gauges.

 

 

There are lots of other subtle differences, but at a quick glance, the differences listed above will tell you right away if this is an 02 or 03 spec bike.

 

And although I love my bike, which is an 02, if the price is right... I'd opt for an 03+ bike as they seem much better sorted.

 

Hope that helps.

al

[Skeeve]

Here are a few exceptions I would take . . .

Front axle dia.: ???? - - - 2003 except for Rosso Corsa LM

Rear rim:(jumped from 5" to 5.5" width) 2002+ - - - 4.5 inches to 5.5

Red frames: 2000 only - - -  Ebayer claims to have red frame '01

57303[/snapback]

 

I'll grant you the 4.5-5.5 correction; I wasn't certain *what* the prior rim size was, only that I remember reading posts regarding the year of the change and that the new size is 5.5" with a 180-section tire [which many consider unnecessarily wide.]

 

I see that Al has corrected my misconception re: the Telaio Rosso Sports as well. Mea Culpa!

 

I'm sure that Dave Richardson could answer a lot of these Q's: anyone have a current copy of Guzziology to reference?

[Guest Adrenal]

Thanks orange, antonio, skeeve and particularly al.

 

I feel armed with the good oil now. I was assuming that the changes dribbled in (Guess I'm too used to older Ducatis) and didn't know that everything was addressed with the 03 model including a new paint job to herald the improvements.

 

So that settles it - the bike is definitely an 03 spec. After this thread, I'd have to agree with al that 03 and later sure seems the better option.

 

I'll report back after seeing it in the flesh.

 

Cheers

[al_roethlisberger]

I'll grant you the 4.5-5.5 correction; I wasn't certain *what* the prior rim size was, only that I remember reading posts regarding the year of the change and that the new size is 5.5" with a 180-section tire [which many consider unnecessarily wide.]

 

I see that Al has corrected my misconception re: the Telaio Rosso Sports as well. Mea Culpa! 

 

I'm sure that Dave Richardson could answer a lot of these Q's: anyone have a current copy of Guzziology to reference? 

57326[/snapback]

 

 

No problemo... I can actually answer ALL of them I am pretty sure at this point(since I have answered this so many times ), but I think we answered his larger question

[al_roethlisberger]

Thanks orange, antonio, skeeve and particularly al.

 

I feel armed with the good oil now. I was assuming that the changes dribbled in (Guess I'm too used to older Ducatis) and didn't know that everything was addressed with the 03 model including a new paint job to herald the improvements.

 

So that settles it - the bike is definitely an 03 spec. After this thread, I'd have to agree with al that 03 and later sure seems the better option.

 

I'll report back after seeing it in the flesh.

 

Cheers

57341[/snapback]

 

 

Yes and keep in mind that the model year versus actual production can vary based on geography.

 

 

In North America for example, we are usually a "year behind" in what we call MG models as compared to our European counterparts.

 

For example, in many cases we've seen what we call 03 models here in the US, as 02 models in the Europe

 

This may be true in OZ as well, but I have no idea, and if so, your "03 spec" bike may be indeed called an 02 model if manufactured early enough, but be an "03" bike by US standards.

 

Sometimes this adds to the confusion.

 

 

Al