Guest Nogbad Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Here's RLs description of what the US HQ office recommends for the Guzzi trans, Heavy ShockProof™: A unique lubricant containing a suspension of solid microscopic particles as an extreme pressure agent--unique solid dispersion which cushions gear teeth to help prevent tooth breakage and allows the use of lower viscosities. Recommended for heavily-loaded racing differentials and transmissions, Off Road racing and problem gearboxes. The viscosity characteristics allow the lubricant to resist throwoff and provide a film thickness similar to a 75W250 grade, while providing the same low fluid friction as an SAE 75W90. 60792[/snapback] NOW I am worried about bearing clearances and rolling element skid...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 NOW I am worried about bearing clearances and rolling element skid...... 60814[/snapback] Why? Bearings don't seem to have much trouble with microscopic additives...even the really big ones... Please don't make me go research this one, Nog... Be happy - take a ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Why? Most bearings don't seem to have much trouble with microscopic additives...even the really big ones... 60815[/snapback] Because, if the film strength of the oil is too high, the ball or roller tries to climb up the oil wave pushed ahead of the bearing element, and instead of rolling, it skids which creates hot spots on the races that become fatigue sites. This is why EP oils are not recommended in gearboxes with high bearing speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 But do you consider the 6-cog box on the Guzzi "ditch pump motor" a "high speed" application? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 But do you consider the 6-cog box on the Guzzi "ditch pump motor" a "high speed" application? 60817[/snapback] What is high speed? The engine red lines at 8400 rpm which translates to 9860.87 at the shaft.(In sixth gear) The synthetic runs cooler to begin with. Put the bike in Nogbad's cool neck of the woods, and I don't thing light weight red line is too thin at all, while the heavy, may be too heavy...unless he works as a London bike messenger. Here in So-Cal, it is a different story....but I am still not sure that Heavy is preferable. Ice Racing, I'd go with Ultra-Light. Vancouver or London, I'd go with Light. NYC or Paris, I might change it seasonally. Phoenix or Madrid, I think the heavy is the ticket. Just my opinion. I may change my mind and go with the salesman's choice after I try the heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O2 V11 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 This is why EP oils are not recommended in gearboxes with high bearing speeds. 60816[/snapback] Below is an extract from Agip's website. It describes the oil that is recommended for our V11's gearbox and bevel box. AGIP ROTRA MP SAE 80W-90/85W-140 AGIP ROTRA MP is an EP (Extreme Pressure) gear oil recommended for hypoid gears operating under severe conditions and for very highly loaded gears in general, especially those subject to dynamic loads. It can also be used in conventional gear-boxes and steering-boxes on cars and trucks, and in gear-boxes, final drives and power take-offs on farm and earth-moving machinery. It can thus be used for lubricating all gears, whatever they are made of, for which the manufacturer recommend an EP lubricant. Does this choice of oil confirm an agricultural background to our machines? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 OK, I guess the bearings must be slow enough and be specified with sufficient clearance for this kind of oil to be fine. I don't dispute at all that what you want for gear life is EP and high film strength. Not sure about these solid particles though... What are they made of? Anyone any idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twhitaker Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Not sure about these solid particles though... What are they made of? Anyone any idea? Pulverized rhinoserous horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 New tag line for Red line: a good oil, a better furniture polish, the best aphrodisiac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I don't dispute at all that what you want for gear life is EP and high film strength. 60862[/snapback] Then why doesn't Guzzi specify something heavier than W90, like 75W140 or 75W250? Is it only because of concerns about power and fuel efficiency? Does anyone using RedLine Heavy notice that it shifts better on a cold day after it warms up? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 The beauty of synthetic is that it will be the right thickness more of the time than dinolube. I was driven to chose the light because of the description that implied that it covered the performance range of 30W to 75W/140. Common sense dictates that that is the correct choice, however the sales people, pitch the Heavy, which no doubt will protect the gears better, but what about other components, like the low pressure internal shift mechanisms that require spring returns, which demand the right thickness of oil? I think only our experience riding with the ShockProof will answer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianG Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I used "HEAVY" and the transmission has a definitely different character to it's sound.... along with the lack of leakage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I used "HEAVY" and the transmission has a definitely different character to it's sound....along with the lack of leakage! 60880[/snapback] If shockproof heavy contains solid particles, this would explain the observation that leakage is reduced. The particles probably block up the leakage path in the manner of radweld. However, the bearing issue puts me off, and I will probably try the "light" or go for another synthetic gear lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbikerrick Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 If shockproof heavy contains solid particles, this would explain the observation that leakage is reduced. The particles probably block up the leakage path in the manner of radweld. However, the bearing issue puts me off, and I will probably try the "light" or go for another synthetic gear lube. 60882[/snapback] 900 miles after putting in the heavy,and not a drop of leakage on my crossover, the gearbox is much quieter, and the shifting is silky smooth, I love the strawberry milkshake!! but I live in southern arizona , where todays temp was 98 degrees F . and it rarely gets below 40 degrees in the middle of winter. Im deffinitely sold on this stuff. I also put it in the final drive of my 1500 vulcan and it runs MUCH cooler to the touch. maybe a mixture of light/heavy is better for some people, But the color wont be as pretty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big J Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 New tag line for Red line: a good oil, a better furniture polish, the best aphrodisiac. 60870[/snapback] And lovely with ice cream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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