V11 Modifications - Opinions?

[dlaing]

What about installing the Ti kit (pipes and ECU) before 1,000 miles?  Does anyone know of any reason why that would be a problem?

 

Thanks.

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It might be a little loud in your neighborhood for you twenty minute break in

But on a serious note, completely theoretically, whatever the differences are between the two muffler and how they effect wear, I think it is beneficial to break it in with a different set of mufflers than what you plan on using, as you it will break it in with a different pulse pattern than what you will get throughout the rest of the engines history, assuming you put the Ti on at say 1000 miles.

What do I mean by pulse pattern? For the same reason that any two engines require a different map, and a change of mufflers even more so, is due to how the engine pumps the air. This pumping will have an effect on the load balance between cylinders, and the exact timing of when the rings are pressed against the cylinder wall by the air pressure.

I believe an opportunity to use the stock mufflers would be a benefit, but I would not worry about it either way.

The Ti kit theoretically is not concerned about emissions, so the engine should run richer and cooler, and there should be less risk of over heating...on the other hand, heat may help the break in, so I don't know I guess it might be like working a drill press, where you want your metal object to warm and soften(but not nearing the melting point), but you want your drill bit to stay cool otherwise it will dull. So we want the cylinder head to stay cool, but for the rings to heat.

Cold weather and a hard run in higher gears seems to be the way to keep that temperature balance. A dyno with whimpy fans would not be ideal....but then again using a dyno is recommended. Heck I don't know.

[dlaing]

I b'lieve it's not the valves that need wearing-in, it's the cam followers.  Where's Pete?

84212[/snapback]

I don't follow

But seriously, you may be correct.

I just see redline as a point where things are moving further and further out of alignment, and I believe it should be approached slowly durring break in.

In addition to the valve train, the cylinders may benefit from not getting too close to redline, because the force of the piston on the cylinder walls is less even as you approach redline. If you open an engine after 100,000 miles, the cylinders are not as round as when the engine was new. The high rpm whipping of the piston and and torquing of the piston against the con rod within the cylinder probably creates more wear on left and right sides than it does on the front and back sides. (perhaps one of the veterans knows for sure)

Assuming this is true you will get more even ring pressure against the cylinder wall at lower RPMs.

I am not saying lug it below 5000RPM, but do the moto man method below 7000 RPM...if you momtarilly exceed 7000rpm, no big deal, I just don't think that is where you want the breaking in to take place initially.

I was told a long time ago to break it in by keeping the rpms low and NOT lugging it, and then gradually building up the load and RPMS....those days are gone, but I still believe that gradually building up the RPMs at the upper RPMs holds valid, but with an ititial limit of 7000 not 5000.

Heck nobody is going to prove I am right or wrong, I just think it is common sense.

[polebridge]

OK...I installed the Ti kit this morning (pipes and ECU). I was able to install the pipes in the low mount position using the original, stock hangers.

 

I must say that I am disapointed after my first 50 miles. I do not notice any performance improvement whatsoever and, in my opinion, the pipes could be a bit louder. Maybe a Stucchi X pipe is in order!

 

I will say that the new pipes are very, very light compared to stock.

[Greg Field]

Well . . . if you decide you don't want them, I might buy them or come up with some interesting trades . . .

[dlaing]

OK...I installed the Ti kit this morning (pipes and ECU). I was able to install the pipes in the low mount position using the original, stock hangers.

 

I must say that I am disapointed after my first 50 miles. I do not notice any performance improvement whatsoever and, in my opinion, the pipes could be a bit louder.  Maybe a Stucchi X pipe is in order!

 

I will say that the new pipes are very, very light compared to stock.

84362[/snapback]

I tried loading the map from the Ti ECU into my OEM ECU and did not like the results at low RPM.

If you get a bunch of popping in lower RPMs, you may want to go back to your OEM ECU.

On the other hand, I have Mistrals and open airbox.

One can only presume that the Ti ECU is better mapped to the Ti Mufflers

FWIW there are some PCIII maps available for the Ti combo.

Also, I suspect most of your performance gain from the Ti mufflers will be above 5500RPM.

I googled for a Ti dyno chart but did not find one

Stucchi Crossover will help EDIT oh, you are on a 2004, so it may only make it louder

Also being on a 2004, I believe the Ti ECU was mapped for the lower compression bikes with no front balance pipe.

So you may want to do some re-mapping to get the most out of them.

[Guest Steve_W]

OK...I installed the Ti kit this morning (pipes and ECU)... in my opinion, the pipes could be a bit louder.

Louder? Why? I demo-rode an '03 LeMans with the Ti pipes a couple of years ago. At one point during the ride, I gassed it going past a small shop and the sound shook a plate glass window hard enough to set off the burglar alarm.

 

For me, it crowded the limit of what I'm willing to inflict on other people. Didn't go over the limit, mind you, but it was close.

 

Louder? No wonder non-motorcycle people think we're boorish.

[belfastguzzi]

Also being on a 2004, I believe the Ti ECU was mapped for the lower compression bikes with no front balance pipe.

84615[/snapback]

There were / (are?) two kits available. One for newer balance pipe set-up, one for no balance pipe.

[dlaing]

There were / (are?) two kits available. One for newer balance pipe set-up, one for no balance pipe. 

84654[/snapback]

ah! Good to know.

I wonder if I loaded the wrong one into my bike...But I think it is from Luhbo's 2000 Sport, so it should have been fine.

[polebridge]

Louder?  Why?  I demo-rode an '03 LeMans with the Ti pipes a couple of years ago.  At one point during the ride, I gassed it going past a small shop and the sound shook a plate glass window hard enough to set off the burglar alarm.

 

For me, it crowded the limit of what I'm willing to inflict on other people.  Didn't go over the limit, mind you, but it was close.

 

Louder?  No wonder non-motorcycle people think we're boorish.

84653[/snapback]

 

Wow! Now you have me really wondering!?! Mine is not load at all. I don't like the really load obnoxious pipes either but I do like to be heard (particularly when passing through someone’s blind spot on the freeway). Also I live in an area that is heavily populated with deer and I like to think that the loud pipe helps to ‘clear the road’ a bit. Don't know if that makes sense at all but...

 

My wife is even disappointed with the volume. In fact she asked me when I was going to install the ‘louder’ pipes AFTER I had already do so. I'm sure that if you heard these pipes, you would agree.

 

They are pretty though!

[Mike Stewart]

I wonder if the new mufflers have baffles (DB killers) in them

 

Many mufflers produced now have to meet sound levels in europe. At least this is my findings with the pipes I have added to my Ducati's. Look at the exhaust exit to see if there is an added baffle/choke riveted inside the pipes. They are easy to remove, usually just need to drill out/remove the pop rivet/bolt.

 

The Termi pipes I put on my Classic Sport 1000 sounded like the stock pipes ($1300. ). With the baffles removed, the bike was too loud (Harley Like), so I ended up machining new baffles that were inbetween the two sizes. Now I have a nice sounding machine . Now how do I get more bass out of it like my Guzzi

 

 

Mike

 

 

Wow! Now you have me really wondering!?!  Mine is not load at all.  I don't like the really load obnoxious pipes either but I do like to be heard (particularly when passing through someone’s blind spot on the freeway).  Also I live in an area that is heavily populated with deer and I like to think that the loud pipe helps to ‘clear the road’ a bit. Don't know if that makes sense at all but...

 

My wife is even disappointed with the volume.  In fact she asked me when I was going to install the ‘louder’ pipes AFTER I had already do so.  I'm sure that if you heard these pipes, you would agree.

 

They are pretty though!

84711[/snapback]

[al_roethlisberger]

Yeah, to me almost all the aftermarket(including MG Ti) pipes are a bit on the loud side.... especially if one is following.

 

I've got the Ti Leo Vince's, and I tell ya, when I was getting it dyno'd a while back I couldn't believe how loud the thing was at full throttle

 

It was somewhat embarrassing to realize this is how loud I must sound running through town

 

 

But at a more sedate puttering around town, they sure do sound nice though

 

I guess it's a tradeoff one has to decide upon.

 

The only big issue for the rider(other than potential legal ones) is how one can stand up to the loudness of these types of pipes on a really long ride.

 

I know of a couple owners that switched back to OEM pipes after realizing that the loudness was an issue for them over a multi-hour trip.

 

Al

[polebridge]

Ok...That's It!!!

 

I am calling my doctor. I must be going deaf!

[Martin Barrett]

I've got the Ti Leo Vince's, and I tell ya, when I was getting it dyno'd a while back I couldn't believe how loud the thing was at full throttle 

 

It was somewhat embarrassing to realize this is how loud I must sound running through town 

 

Al

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Al you're a "bad ass mo fo" if you're running full throttle through town!!!! And the father of a little girl who can only just be a year old, What is the world coming to

 

 

 

[DeBenGuzzi]

The FBF pipes on my bike are the perfect note mid throttle, they are real throaty at idle mellow out mid throttle like a V8 and are almost deafening WOT. For long trips I notice the wind noise/fatigue and leg cramps way b4 the pipes bother me.

[Guest JohnInNH]

My Carbon fiber Mistral Ovals are much different sounding with different maps. My Latest and greatest is the custom Advanced map I had done in CT. My bike now sounds less sharp. It's much louder behind but when I ride I am in front of the exhaust

 

I was considering putting back on my stock cross over to help mellow it some but now after the new map it's seems more comfortable. I swear I can tell when the map is to lean by the sound. When it's fat it sounds more mellow. I can hear it on the highway, but it's not loud to me.

 

I just put the bike on the road with new Conti Road Attacks They feel nice .. They make the bike a little lighter feeling than the BT020's Let's see how they wear.

 

Next will be the Z6

 

I have to say after reading the last 3 pages I do think there is merit in not just settling for bone stock. The Advanced map has completely changed the bike's personality. It's such a hoot to drive now. It's more Guzzi now. Everything I loved about it is just better. It's sooo much smoother and the mid range feels better. (then the last custom map I had in my serial PC-III)

 

All the changes I have made are coming together. MPH risers, x pipe, Mistrals, FBF air filter, and PC-III advanced map. My MPG has come back some too. 38.1 MPG last fillup. When the warm weather finally gets here I bet I hit 40.

 

The power debate is fun to read. As you know I got a CAL-II along with my son. Riding them is a totally different experience. After his riding his DL1000K2 for the last 5000 miles he took his repaired CAL-II for a spin. "I forgot how much torque this has!" he said smiling ear to ear.

 

For a heavy old carbed bike it goes. Mine gets 47 MPG on secondary roads at 50-55 MPH, and it's not slow. It's not in the same league as the V11 but for a 1000cc 1985 Police Bike it's no slouch. (Better front brakes sure would help!)

 

It corners fine too. But it's not stock.. I did put "World" Spec jets and needles in it per Guzzology. That transformed the bike. Just like the V11 and the slight tweaking we do with pipes and a PC-III

 

All we are really doing is fixing what the EPA screws up.

 

The old 1974 BMW R100RS made 8 HP more and got 50+ MPG before the EPA screwed with it. My last year R100RS had the smaller carbs had the EPA air pump on it and struggled to get 45 mpg. I cold not keep up with my Uncle on his pre EPA "RS". Then when we filled up I would take MUCH more fuel. Thank you EPA.

 

Let see 5 mpg over 100,000 = 222 gallons of gas. How much MORE pollution ya think that made? Let alone the energy cost to produce the 222 gallons of fuel.

 

Worse MPG and less power thanks. With some EFI we can get amazing #'s Look at he 505 HP Corvette getting 26 MPG. That would be 10 mpg 20-30 years ago so technology is improving.

 

The V11 may be at the end of it's development in it's current form, but it is by no means under powered. A guy in town is selling his monster 145 HP sport bike to get a V11. He said it's a perfect balance of torque and HP. I tend to agree.

 

My DL1000K5 makes about the same power, but in MUCH different "trim". Similar power band 6 speed with TALL gears. To bad it's a chain drive. I can ride that bike for 8 hrs and still be up for more. Not so on the Le Mans, but it's no where as much fun or as in touch with the road. The V11 feels like perfection. (to me) My only problem is wind noise. I wish they made a helmet that was quiet when in the riding position. Mine is very quiet when perfectly vertical but I cannot ride with my head straight up for to long.

 

I think the V11 power plant just about perfect But I'm just an old "air head"