What to do about the vehicle manufacturing industry

[belfastguzzi]

From Seth Godin's Blog:

 

>>What to do about Detroit

 

I was in Detroit last week... I have family there. I also drive a car. And I would rather that the world doesn't melt and the economy thrive. So I'm uniquely qualified to weigh in on the automobile industry.

 

Not only should Congress encourage/facilitate the organized bankruptcy of the Big Three, but it should also make it easy for them to be replaced by 500 new car companies.

 

Or perhaps a thousand.

 

That's how many car companies there were 90 years ago.

 

That's right, when all the innovation hit the car industry, there were thousands of car companies, with hundreds running at any one time. From Wikipedia:

 

Throughout this era, development of automotive technology was rapid, due in part to a huge number (hundreds) of small manufacturers all competing to gain the world's attention. Key developments included electric ignition (by Robert Bosch, 1903), independent suspension, and four-wheel brakes (by the Arrol-Johnston Company of Scotland in 1909).[16] Leaf springs were widely used for suspension, though many other systems were still in use, with angle steel taking over from armored wood as the frame material of choice. Transmissions and throttle controls were widely adopted, allowing a variety of cruising speeds, though vehicles generally still had discrete speed settings rather than the infinitely variable system familiar in cars of later eras.

 

Between 1907 and 1912, the high-wheel motor buggy (resembling the horse buggy of before 1900) was in its heyday, with over seventy-five makers including Holsman (Chicago), IHC (Chicago), and Sears (which sold via catalog); the high-wheeler would be killed by the Model T.

 

Back in its heyday, Ford Motor made every single part of its cars, including raising the sheep that grew the wool that made the fabric that upholstered the seats. That's not true any more. Now, suppliers make just about every part. We need those suppliers, and we need them to stay healthy.

 

What we don't need are giant companies with limited choice, confused priorities, private jets and a bully's attitude.

 

I'd spend a billion dollars to make the creation of a car company turnkey. Make it easy to get all the safety and regulatory approvals... as easy to start a car company as it is to start a web company. Use the bankruptcy to wipe out the hated, legacy marketing portion of the industry: the dealers.

 

We'd end up with a rational number of "car stores" in every city that sold lots of brands. We'd have super cheap cars and super efficient cars and super weird cars. There'd be an orgy of innovation, and from that, a whole new energy and approach would evolve. Betcha.

[John in Leeds]

From Seth Godin's Blog:

 

By gum, I did enjoy that. Lots to think about.

 

You might also consider the film on DVD from Chris Paine 'Who killed the electric car?' for an indicment on the stifling of automotive inovation.

 

 

 

Revenge of the Electric Car

[dhansen]

Yeah, I can see Super Efficient and Super Weird but not Super Cheap. There are certain basic economy of scale rules that will keep us from ever seeing the days of 1000 different car manufacturers in the USA or anywhere else.

 

Dennis

[belfastguzzi]

Does anyone remember the Africar project? The dream of an affordable and easily repairable car, particularly for Africa / emerging nations.

I thought it was fabulous, fascinating and I was totally engrossed when it was documented on tv many years ago.

I tried on various occasions to find more info, over the years, but it was hard to find anything. That was before Wikipedia etc. I see there are available references now.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africar

http://www.oldwoodies.com/feature-africar.htm

 

 

Here is a good article, from a dedicated builder:

http://www.difflock.com/diffmag/issue10/Africar2/index.shtml

[Ralph Werner]

A few years back I was a guest on a large boat at a gathering in Newport. There were several yachts in the 100' category present and almost every one was owned by a car dealer.

 

Sure made me wonder how many cars they had to sell at "$200 over cost" to afford such luxury.

 

Maybe they are the ones who should bail out the auto industry rather than the taxpayers. Get 100 of them to each kick in $1,000,000 and let us alone!

[John in Leeds]

Does anyone remember the Africar project? The dream of an affordable and easily repairable car, particularly for Africa / emerging nations.

I thought it was fabulous, fascinating and I was totally engrossed when it was documented on tv many years ago.

I tried on various occasions to find more info, over the years, but it was hard to find anything. That was before Wikipedia etc. I see there are available references now.

 

Here is a good article, from a dedicated builder:

http://www.difflock.com/diffmag/issue10/Africar2/index.shtml

 

Wow what a blast from the past - I still have the Africar book and the C4 series somewhere on video, together with the Promotional catalogue. If we get to meet up again you might want to have a look at them.

 

I was very interested in purchasing the 4wheel station wagen and went to the factory in Lancaster for a trial. The vehicle drove suprisingly well with the flat 4 (GSA?) engine, not the 2CV, and the long travel suspension was a revelation. Much like riding an enduro bike bumps and hollows making little diference to progress and comfort.

Sadly the 'factory' was little more than a shell looking like the dummy invasion force mock ups for the D-day landings so the cash stayed in my pocket.

 

Thanks for the fascinating and useful difflock link. It was such a good idea and could probably still fly but totally goes against the current ethos of main dealer only repair and maintenance vehicles.

[gstallons]

WARNING .. Hot subject material..

The problem that exists now is different than any time in the past. As far as automobiles, Toyotas are made in Ky. and chevrolets are made in Mexico. This Nation and it's (middle and lower income)citizens are out money.Traditionally our leaders are prostitutes that will do anything for $$$. All of the money has through trade defecits has finally left the country. The problem with the auto industry is nobody can buy or is scared to buy from layoffs or closing. If all manufacturing facilities close and go to another country everyone gets laid off who can buy if they are out of work?

You can purchase nothing here that is not "made in China". The quality of materials and machine work is pathetic. Whe I was growing up China was a Communist country and our enemy? By the way we have borrowed from our new friends ALL that we are worth to "play war".

Every sentence could be discussed for days.

I am one of a few that has optimism that this new administration is going to be able to stabilize this problem and to correct it.

[Ralph Werner]

I am one of a few that has optimism that this new administration is going to be able to stabilize this problem and to correct it.

 

I'm with you here but trying to control man's greed is quite a daunting (if not impossible) task. :(

[gstallons]

I'm with you here but trying to control man's greed is quite a daunting (if not impossible) task. :(

 

"Greed is good" according to Gordon Gecko. From the movie "Wall Sreet"

and my favorite.... "I love humanity, it's people i can't stand" Linus from "Peanuts"

or " You know what bothers me, I'm beginning to agree with my old man...and he's not gettin' ANY cooler!" George Carlin.

[Paul Minnaert]

it's not an easy question, what to do with the big 3. Let them die because they doen't fit they current carmarket, and they have been sleeping to long? The bad thing are the layoffs, but will putting extreme money in them, make it profitable companys again? Theire current program has big cars, people won't buy anymore in the numbers needed to survive. People aren't buying cars at all. Or at least so much less the whole car industry, is producing way to much. It's in europe too. Here they face the same problems on a (until now) smaller scale. But it can be we lag behind, and the big hit will follow here. Our local truck company, DAF, does sell maybe half from what they sold a year ago.

[dlaing]

When they get so big that they can't even bring electric cars to the market, something is wrong.

I test road a Vectrics scooter, made in Poland?, and it was a blast to ride, but at $11,000 US they weren't getting my money.

But recently, after years of development and disappointing promises of a production motorcycle, another company finally released a faster (60+MPH), cheaper ($8000), motorcycle:

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/

Bless the small companies! (Doing what BMkawazukonda won't)

As nice as that bike is, I wish it was formatted as a standard with optional windscreens, luggage, and extended range batteries....someday maybe, but this is a great first step!

[gstallons]

it's not an easy question, what to do with the big 3. Let them die because they doen't fit they current carmarket, and they have been sleeping to long? The bad thing are the layoffs, but will putting extreme money in them, make it profitable companys again? Theire current program has big cars, people won't buy anymore in the numbers needed to survive. People aren't buying cars at all. Or at least so much less the whole car industry, is producing way to much. It's in europe too. Here they face the same problems on a (until now) smaller scale. But it can be we lag behind, and the big hit will follow here. Our local truck company, DAF, does sell maybe half from what they sold a year ago.

The unfortunate thing is... we have had to maintain a new car every year driven by a fossil fuel because it something changed there would be a financial crisis. Things really went to hell when we had a sudden surge in fuel prices. $4.00+ per gal. here and it broke the back of our economy .It took every penny of spare change of the common man including me! It took more money to get to work than you were earning. Now without any reason fuel prices are falling. I wonder why?

[dlaing]

But recently, after years of development and disappointing promises of a production motorcycle, another company finally released a faster (60+MPH), cheaper ($8000), motorcycle:

 

Probably the number one reason production was delayed (or cancelled), Piaggio

From their website's FAQ:

 

Why is the Electric GPR out of production?

 

If It was up to us we would still be building Electric GPR Motorcycles. These motorcycles were built using Spanish made Derbi GPR rolling chassis. Derbi USA supplied us the rolling chassis. Then Derbi was bought by Piaggio (Italy). Piaggio then pulls the whole Derbi line from the North American market. So it meant we could no longer get the new rolling chassis.

 

I really wish some billionaire would buy Guzzi from Piaggio.

[John in Leeds]

When they get so big that they can't even bring electric cars to the market, something is wrong.

 

 

can't or won't? WILL NOT!

 

Biggest cars = biggest profits, it certainly works short term

 

that together with the marketing that says 'you suck as a person if you don't have one of these'.

 

Even if the big three fall you don't really think the men who run them will end up destitute do you?

 

We are really schooled only as consumers and are therefore easy meat for the unscrupulous

 

Earthship anyone?

[dlaing]

Now without any reason fuel prices are falling. I wonder why?

I wonder why, too!!!

When prices first rose, I thought it was enrichen Bush's buddies pockets, but now I wonder if the prices were risen by OPEC because the OPEC controllers despised Bush and wanted the economy to fail under him?????

In any case, the Iraq wars have something to do with it.

The ones that are going to make out like bandits are the cash rich oil barons that can now buy EVERYTHING dirt cheap.

As for first world manufacturing, the future is dismal.

Can the little companies like Electric Motorsport make it?

I think we may see a growth of smalll manufacturing for a few years followed by the big corporations swallowing much of them up, within the next decade. But I could be wrong...