luhbo Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 so again it's only "We all know about Guzzi that..." and "I'm 30 years in my personal business and I tell you that..." and more of this kind. Thanks Pete, again very substantial! The question was, what makes you think the clutch is Guzzi designed? Is it only the fact that one came out of a Guzzi engine and the other came out of a box with RAM written on it? Or is it the fact that the one coming out of the Guzzi engine was broken and the other one was ok and new? I still can't see why it should be true what you say. No, you're probably totaly wrong with what you spread here. You know that you can't proof your saying but continue to share it publically and "sheer bloody-minded" Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 so again it's only "We all know about Guzzi that..." and "I'm 30 years in my personal business and I tell you that..." and more of this kind. Thanks Pete, again very substantial! The question was, what makes you think the clutch is Guzzi designed? Is it only the fact that one came out of a Guzzi engine and the other came out of a box with RAM written on it? Or is it the fact that the one coming out of the Guzzi engine was broken and the other one was ok and new? I still can't see why it should be true what you say. No, you're probably totaly wrong with what you spread here. You know that you can't proof your saying but continue to share it publically and "sheer bloody-minded" Hubert Oh, sorry. I wasn't aware that I was expected to take pictures of and post up detailed analysis of them on this site or any other. <_> All I'm doing is expressing my opinion and sharing information I've gleaned from a variety of sources, some of them *official*, some of them *unofficial* and my own personal observations. The two flywheels are different, whether the one used in the Scura was redesigned by Guzzi or RAM matters not one whit. The fact is that the ones in the Scura have a tendency to fly apart. All I said was that if I owned on it would be at the top of the list of parts to change out for something else. Whether other people choose to do so is entirely up to them but the suggestion that I'm saying things for purely scurrilous reasons is, I'm sorry, absurd! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max scura Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Ok,now we know that Scura's clutch is not a good part....but my question is: is the RAM aftermarket kit a worthwhile clutch ? Or we have to entrust to the Guzzi's original two plates unit? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 RAM aftermarket is a happy thing, although I'd better qualify that by saying I've heard of no complaints or failures. The twin plater works fine for me in my Griso and in many other V11's. I have heard of problems with it slipping in very highly tuned 4 valvers but I've never experienced it myself. You pays yer money and takes yer pick. If you do g with the twin plater make sure that you get the ten spring version, not the eight spring. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 While replacing the clutch in the 2002 Scura as a prophylactic measure is a good idea...er ah , MUST DO, just for the record; The described noise is really normal for the breed . Not by and of itself an indication of impending doom Being a very limited production machine from a very tiny company thes things can happen,Nothing new to machinery from any region, BTW this is coming from someone who has only broken one engine out of over 40 bikes, It was a JAPANESE Kawasaki KZ-1000. I have done too many bottom ends, too many valve jobs and repaired far too many electrical ailments on Japanese machines to buy into the perception of Japanese superiority. My 2 Pence! Hi Gary, Iv'e had the the opposite luck with Japanese bikes.about 15 or so bikes ,200K miles + and NO failures.First Guzzi and it has a clutch that could explode,a couple of recalls and a couple small leaks(I'll give Guzzi the benefit of the doubt on the leaks and blame the previous owner for lack of attention). I'm not complaining ,just stating fact I guess our luck,good or bad, is just that,...Luck! Took the Scura for a ride in the mountains near my house in the Catskills,Upstate New York .Perfect fall day.Warm,great roads,beautifull foliage.And a Guzzi sweetly humming...With one ear to the clutch..Best damm handling bike Iv'e owned. Life is good. Has anyone had a reputable shop do the swap,and what was the bill?Labor,hours? seems like the Ram replacement single plate kit goes for about $500.00 for the part. Thanks, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Cheek Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hi Gary, Iv'e had the the opposite luck with Japanese bikes.about 15 or so bikes ,200K miles + and NO failures.First Guzzi and it has a clutch that could explode,a couple of recalls and a couple small leaks(I'll give Guzzi the benefit of the doubt on the leaks and blame the previous owner for lack of attention). I'm not complaining ,just stating fact I guess our luck,good or bad, is just that,...Luck! Took the Scura for a ride in the mountains near my house in the Catskills,Upstate New York .Perfect fall day.Warm,great roads,beautifull foliage.And a Guzzi sweetly humming...With one ear to the clutch..Best damm handling bike Iv'e owned. Life is good. Has anyone had a reputable shop do the swap,and what was the bill?Labor,hours? seems like the Ram replacement single plate kit goes for about $500.00 for the part. Thanks, Michael Hello, You have it , luck is the word.You were lucky enough to get the Guzzi that used the weak flywheel, I was lucky enough to buy a KZ1000 before I learned of the propensity for crank failures. Luck of the draw. I have only owned 1 new bike in 45 or so bikes, a 1975 Trident, Wound up totally going through the top end at 3000 miles. Removed the swivel foot valve adjusters, fitted .080" OS intakes, Ducati lash caps and Hastings one piece cast iron oil ring ( a long story!) Then rode it another 80,000 without a hitch. I have owned 17 Guzzis by now since 1975 and not one of them was a new bike. I sold one Eldo with 130,000 on the clock. It is still running strong. Nothing more than normal maintenance, No failures. On the other hand I bought a Scura that had just blown up it's second (previous owner) engine in a few thousand miles. Went through the engine and it now has over 30K on , still with the original clutch. I didn't beat the bike nor does the present owner(A former Honda rider) and my closest friend who claims it is the best bike he has ever owned . The thing is this stuff can and does happen especially to a small company that cannot afford an extended test regime for a production run of about 600 bikes. Hindsight says they should have used the proven design. Some of us just accept it as the price of riding a marque that may have teething pains but matures into a machine that will still be running years after the juvenile perfection of the Asian bikes has faded into planned obsolescence. You can probably do the clutch at home if you care to try. The engine is an absolute snap to pull out . A simple matter of tank removal , disconnect a few wires and hoses , remove the front subframe m support the engine unbolt trans and sllide the engine forward and out. I can supply you with a copy of the manual if that helps. If you want to come to Detroit I will do it for you, no charge. Should take about 3 hours start to finish. You might even call MGNA and politely ask for some good will and actually get it. I saw them replace a 20 year old wheel a couple years ago. Stick with it and hopefully you will be glad you did. Very best of luck, the anxiety should soon fade. I do believe the sound you are hearing however is normal. It would still be prudent to change the clutch to one of the other types suggested. I have been strongly encouraging the present owner of my old Scura to update ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 ...You have it , luck is the word....The thing is this stuff can and does happen especially to a small company that cannot afford an extended test regime for a production run of about 600 bikes. Hindsight says they should have used the proven design. Some of us just accept it as the price of riding a marque that may have teething pains but matures into a machine that will still be running years after the juvenile perfection of the Asian bikes has faded into planned obsolescence...etc.etc... Well put Gary What caused the 2 Scura motor failures? KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Cheek Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Well put Gary What caused the 2 Scura motor failures? KB The second motor was killed by the first motor. Either Moto Guzzi, the servicing dealer or a combination of the two neglected to replace the oil cooler and the hoses. The second engine abuptly failed after running just fine for about 1000 miles. I purchased the Scura from MGNA after they bought it back from the original owner. Upon teardown I found one rod bearing had failed, just short of spinning within the big end. I pulled the oil cooler and drained it through a filter. It was loaded with sludge. No doubt it was the first time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 It was loaded with sludge. No doubt it was the first time as well. I think that there are lots of us with oil coolers and frames / drain-back lines loaded with sludge as an unfortunate product of many short journeys. Queries and discussion on this before included the notion of removing the oil cooler. Does it follow on from your comments that this would be a good idea, just to get one source of water and emulsion out of the system, even if oil isn't passing through it very often? You're saying that the emulsion terminally damaged the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Cheek Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I think that there are lots of us with oil coolers and frames / drain-back lines loaded with sludge as an unfortunate product of many short journeys. Queries and discussion on this before included the notion of removing the oil cooler. Does it follow on from your comments that this would be a good idea, just to get one source of water and emulsion out of the system, even if oil isn't passing through it very often? You're saying that the emulsion terminally damaged the motor? Yes, I believe the residual trash from the original engine contaminated the subesequent engine's oil system. It is standard practice to replace the oil cooler when an engine suffers such a failure as this. It is up to the owners to decide upon removing the cooler altogether. One of the first oil cooler equipped bikes for me was a 1969 BSA Rocket 3. I equipped the bike with both a pressure gauge and an oil temp gauge early on. The oil was never getting warm during the 15 mile morning commute, Things got worse when winter set in. Looking at the oil when arriving at work the stuff had a chocolate milk with whipped cream quality. I fitted a foam lined leather cooler cover as a stop gap measure. That allowed me to expose the cooler when needed. A couple years later we came across bypass type cooler thermostats from Lockhart Co. in the Whitney catalog. The $25 thing worked just fine. Since the Guzzi cooler has a built into the sump T'stat I have no problem with it being there aside from having two hoses and 4 fittings that could not leak if they were not there. It does reduce the anxiety of a traffic jam on a hot day or or extended high speed with a heavy load. Still prefer the oil a bit on the hot side with a minimum warm up time to running colder oil for any time longer than absolutely needed. The nice thing about an oil temp gauge is the instant feedback it gives to how hard the engine is working and when it is still to cold to be worked hard. A bit of a conscience goes along way to improving engine life. The temp gauge is a great reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 Hello, You have it , luck is the word.You were lucky enough to get the Guzzi that used the weak flywheel, I was lucky enough to buy a KZ1000 before I learned of the propensity for crank failures. Luck of the draw. I have only owned 1 new bike in 45 or so bikes, a 1975 Trident, Wound up totally going through the top end at 3000 miles. Removed the swivel foot valve adjusters, fitted .080" OS intakes, Ducati lash caps and Hastings one piece cast iron oil ring ( a long story!) Then rode it another 80,000 without a hitch. I have owned 17 Guzzis by now since 1975 and not one of them was a new bike. I sold one Eldo with 130,000 on the clock. It is still running strong. Nothing more than normal maintenance, No failures. On the other hand I bought a Scura that had just blown up it's second (previous owner) engine in a few thousand miles. Went through the engine and it now has over 30K on , still with the original clutch. I didn't beat the bike nor does the present owner(A former Honda rider) and my closest friend who claims it is the best bike he has ever owned . The thing is this stuff can and does happen especially to a small company that cannot afford an extended test regime for a production run of about 600 bikes. Hindsight says they should have used the proven design. Some of us just accept it as the price of riding a marque that may have teething pains but matures into a machine that will still be running years after the juvenile perfection of the Asian bikes has faded into planned obsolescence. You can probably do the clutch at home if you care to try. The engine is an absolute snap to pull out . A simple matter of tank removal , disconnect a few wires and hoses , remove the front subframe m support the engine unbolt trans and sllide the engine forward and out. I can supply you with a copy of the manual if that helps. If you want to come to Detroit I will do it for you, no charge. Should take about 3 hours start to finish. You might even call MGNA and politely ask for some good will and actually get it. I saw them replace a 20 year old wheel a couple years ago. Stick with it and hopefully you will be glad you did. Very best of luck, the anxiety should soon fade. I do believe the sound you are hearing however is normal. It would still be prudent to change the clutch to one of the other types suggested. I have been strongly encouraging the present owner of my old Scura to update ASAP. Wow,Gary,what an awsome offer!I am in NYC/upstate so I can't visit ya but I will look through the manual,the previous owner included it on CD, and maybe have a go at it after the cold weather sets in.Would be a nice winter project.I'm at Yankee stadium now for game.workin for ESPN,will be in Mo-town tomorrow.Go Tigers!! Thanks, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Cheek Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Too bad you aren't riding out here. I am about 20 miles North of the stadium. Could have the job done in less time than it will take for the Tigers to throw the game away. Mayhaps whilst you are in town you can find time to visit Detroit Eurocycles. One of the world's best Guzzi dealers. They are having an open house all day Saturday, October 7 . As with most of their events I should be there. Probably running a demo ride or ten. Enjoy your visit here, just a few miles North of Canada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.gilmore Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 This is my flywheel and clutch after 24000km. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Is that a crack in the flywheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.gilmore Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Is that a crack in the flywheel? Sure is.Did'nt have to get that one crack tested, there is about 4 others starting to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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