motortouring
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Posts posted by motortouring
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It is maybe a bit difficult to see, but the aluminium colored is 44mm and the black is 42,.. mm
Very provisional measurement.
The reference is the frontside of the triple clamp and the inside of the triple clamp tube.
So the rake is smaller for the later models. It will give 8mm more trail(estimate).
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6 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:
Ok so I've had to delete my last post on this because it was wrong. I have established without doubt that the later V11 sport triple clamps are indeed "canted" or more correctly have a built in negative rake. You can fairly easily check what your bike has by a measurement insitu. I have a new set of the later black triples and you can confirm by measuring the steering stem hole location in the bottom clamp. If you measure from the edge of the stem hole OD to the front and aft edges of the oval flat face the newer raked clamps measure 11mm and 16mm respectively where the older 0 rake forks measure 13mm and 14mm. So Guzzi have moved the stem forward 2mm in the new lower triple clamps effectively steepening the angle in the lower clamp and left the top clamp the same. So 40mm offset on the top clamp and 38mm for the lower. They have of course machined the fork leg bores at a fractional angle to allow for this so you cant mix and match new and old clamps.
Here's an image of a later clamp base and you can see the stem hole is obviously off set on the machined flat face. The earlier lower clamps have the stem hole more centred by 2mm. The effect of this negative offset is to give the bike more trail. How much I don't know but it may also clear up some of the wheel base question marks as well between the bikes which I think have been discussed aside from the long/short frame variations.
Very interesting!! The first proof I have seen. I am going to the shed this evening to measure. I have a 1999(KR, redframe) and a 2002 (KS)
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Count me in as well (2 times). Five and six.
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13 hours ago, stewgnu said:
No, i’ve just run them without (it’s happened on both my v11s, due to hitting potholes i think!).
I haven’t noticed much difference at nighttime, but i suppose there must be a reduced effect?
Same here.
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2 hours ago, stewgnu said:
Whoaa there fella! Don’t break it or buy a new unit. What i did was reach in with a set of tin snips and cut bits off it till it was small enough to drop out. It’s only very thin metal so cuts very easily.
I did the same. It takes a bit of patience.
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3 minutes ago, PJPR01 said:
Dank u wel....thanks all for the insights.
Will take out the headlight and see if the light can be opened up and diffuser repaired, since it's a black outer shell, I presume it's the outer plastic bucket. Looks like the diffuser has a broken tab.
Interesting that the new Stein Dinse replacement does not have a diffuser, wonder if that is a brighter headlight than the OEM one.
The diffuser is necessary for old H4 bulbs. The ones the sell today have a diffuser on the tip of the bulb.
If your diffuser is still not touching the reflector, you might be able to get it out through the hole of the light-bulb. Then it is good to go again.
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You can buy a new reflector at Stein Dinse. It is not in the catalogus, but they do sell it. Or the Dutch representative of SD has another source for this. JRE Robers motoren.
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Hi Stewgnu,
Do you stil have them?
Motortouring?
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On 3/22/2022 at 9:53 PM, Lucky Phil said:
Carefully watch the front forks just before he tips into the corner, maybe 50m before and you'll see them compress sharply and rebound which isn't normally what you'd expect at that point as it upsets the bike just before entry.
The highside mechanism is a pretty straight forward one. The rear tyre loses grip and begins to slide which tightens the line of the bike to varying degrees and the rear suspension extends once again to a varying degree. The rider or the traction control then backs the power off and the tyre grips again, the rear suspension compresses and depending on the degree of the above mentioned dynamics plus the speed the lean angle and quite a few other factors the resultant potential energy created is released in one violent event for the bike and rider. The rest is the dissipation of that now kinetic energy into altitude for rider and bike and friction when they hit the ground.
Modern traction control systems are supposed to mitigate the event well before the attitude of the bike is allowed to create the potential energy however there isn't currently any protection for an "off throttle" highside Marquez experienced.
Ciao
Your right.
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19 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:
Something a bit weird about this crash. Did anyone else notice the front forks dip about 20mm and then recover just before he turned it in? Look at the side on replay if you still can. At first I thought he had applied a bit of front brake to load the front tyre before entry but the forks reaction was a bit too aggressive for that. Then my mind turned to a mechanical issue like it's lost a brake pad or something and caused a momentary hick up to the front end just before he turned it in. Interesting and once you've seen it side on you can notice it from the bike view as well. I'd love to get a look at the data just before the crash.
https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2022/03/21/marc-marquez-on-one-of-the-biggest-crashes-he-s-had/411741
Ciao
As a vehicle dynamics engineer, I must say I did not really see what you did. But, when loosing grip sideways and releasing the brake to find grip again, that is exactly what would happen before the high-sider. He must have found grip on the front end.
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Are these still for sale?
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15 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:
Maybe a translation thing but I'm not sure about "less", ie reduced "handling" whatever "handling" is defined to be. My 1198 has reduced offset triple clamps down from 36 to 30mm. The std 36mm offset road clamps means the bike doesn't finish off the corner well and has a tendency to run wide exiting corners under power. The increased trail and added weight on the front wheel corrects this by and large. It's noticeable on the track but not the road, as you're not pushing that hard on the road.
There are a lot of compromises made in the set up and dimensions of older road bikes to accommodate for pillions, different weight riders and the highly variable conditions all the bikes sold will be ridden in around the world. Some of the reason modern bikes handle so well is because the manufacturers have gradually narrowed down the compromises which is great for particular riders and environments but not for others. They then drag it back a little by electronically tailored adjustability.
Ciao
Around 30mm raise of the front would have done the same for geometry, but that is not always possible. Or do you mean that the weight on the front was the essential part of the solution. Interesting point, I did not consider that.
We should make a separate topic of this discussion :-)
I made an EXCEL sheet that calculated the theoretical values for geometry. Can I share that over here?
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On 2/19/2022 at 2:31 AM, Tomchri said:
Yes docc, brings a big smile just looking and think about it. Turning angle ain’t much, and what degrees ?, but can’t wait to check out her behavior in the mountains. Snowing outside right now.
Cheers Tom.
A short offset is larger trail. So more stability and less handling. I hope they didn't change to much on that.
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And there is Jutta Kleinschmidt, a Dakar Veteran and Champion.
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On 12/25/2021 at 7:52 AM, MartyNZ said:
I had to look up what a W123 was, and yes, now you mention it, there's a lot of them on the road in NZ. MB seems okay, but many recent models of European cars don't seem to age well. Great when new... The Volvo is an obvious exception. Great cars, similar reliability and durability to Japanese and Korean cars.
We are a bit off topic, but: Volvo uses Peugeot Diesel engines, good decision.
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On 1/3/2022 at 3:38 AM, Chris Wilson said:
Wow, I must bathe in my ignorance for I have only ever had a minor recall on my K75 with an unneeded steering damper and that is for about 20 vehicles owned over a 45 year period.
Nothing major has broken except for a radiator top tank after 10 years of city driving and about 280,000km.
Even had a GTL 500 Ducati that never broke down.
My ask is, if all these modern vehicles seem prone to recall and costly parts replacement then how are they driven?
Chris.
You might touch a good point here. A car or motorcycle is a machine but it is considered by many users a consumer good. When treated like a machine it has substantial longer life. If you ride an Audi or BMW like a world touring championship competitor, you will need a sponsor for an annual drive train replacement.
My Peugeot 306 Break just past the 560.000 with no drive train parts replaced so far. Not a very inspiring car by the way 😀.
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5 hours ago, po18guy said:
One more suggestion: OURY street grips. They are a block pattern, made of low durometer (soft) rubber. I use them on parallel twins with good effect. Mountain bikers use the MTB version to cushion the shock of dirt riding. Less than $15 on Amazon.
It even looks like they have a special ribble part for the throttle assist
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This was posted on the MGCN forum. I do have a kind of déjà vu.
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I hope this is a very good camouflage :-)
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A road version of this Fast Endurance kit would be nice. Also as an aftermarket kit.
V7 850 Endurance racer (that is LeMans, isn't it?)
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Well, I think, the Guzzi's are in general over-dimensioned (if that is the correct English word). And the use of proven automotive parts, like a a 2kW startermotor (on the old Tonti's) replace durability tests. The large crankshaft bearings and not extreme torque, over-dimensioned parts in the gearbox, make the lower part of the engine block very durable by design. And the top engine part is all very easy to maintain.
But the comparison with family affaire is not so bad :-)
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I used to work in automotive(4 wheels) aftermarket parts, even before I was riding a Guzzi. It struck me that all parts that we distributed for all brands of vehicles in Europe, were not very usable for the Honda and Suzuki motorcycles that I was riding. Later, when I started riding the LeMans 2 (in 1999, so it was already an "oldy"), I saw all kinds of parts that were considered universal in the stock of this aftermarket distributor on the LeMans. Sparkplugs, contact-breakers(standard for alfa, fiat, marelli), ignition coils, starter motor, revision parts for the generator, headlights. Wiring colors were the same as Fiat, connectors the same, battery was standard(good price)etc etc.
The whole machine can be maintained in an agriculture workshop, tolerances are not very critical, tools are mainly standard or easy to make. This machine is a dream for everybody that has basic engineering interest. You get a lot of confirmation that you improve, because things are understandably explained in available manuals, parts are relatively in-expensive and available, and repairs turn out to be successful (or it is easy to do it again). On top of that, parts for newer models are often compatible with older models (and improved). I know it sounds ridiculous, but in the end you come to love each nut and bolt in the machine. Just look at this forum where people talk on the wire thickness of the retainer spring for the shift mechanism, and the little bolt on the jiffy, and the 20mm or 19mm red-frame/black frame discussions and many , many more. That is unique, I enjoy this very much and I am in constant adoration of those that have discovered again new perspectives on parts, types and even nuts and bolts. I love to be part of that.
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13 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:
It has a piece of string tied to it and looped over the l/h bar grip. Get on the bike, retract the sidestand and pull up the string wrap it around the stand plate and put it in your jacket. That's what I'd do.
Just off to patent that now.
Ciao
Then I stick to the daily exercise to keep the limps flexible. I am not going to fund your patents :-)
Triple clamp musings.
in Technical Topics
Posted
I think fork length is not in the equation.