ScuRoo

Careful with what you assume - the actual OEM O2 sensor location is underneath on top of the usual stock crossover - with the front balancer added according to Guzzi to improve midrange. For some this’ll be an anathema - but I hold the view that the 15RC feedback modulation is an evolutionary improvement by Magneti Marelli. When married with the improved LSH24 offering higher cross count sensor speeds it performs phenomenally. Disabling feedback imo isn’t really a step forward - it’s just a shortcut means to an end. Kind of like chopping out tonsils & appendix’s. Sure, it can be done - but better...?

Adding this here as most appropriate for subject resource... As you know our V11’s are not spoilt for choice on cams - but of the options available - choosing which one can be extrapolated. 🍻

Please yourself LP - don’t lose sight of the fact that Ube’s recommended tip is in ‘actuality’ now installed on my bike - the experiment has been performed - it’s been put to the test. I confirmed for myself the benefits, as recommended are real. Nothing too ‘Theorists’ about that to my mind. Everything else is just waffle, heck, it’s a forum - but the reality of implementation results is what counts. Ube is highly respected on the AG forum - he’s a Guzzi specialist mechanic. It’s only a few buck$ O2 people - yet you’ll get back 10x the results. It’s reversible - what’s not to like? It’s unfortunate imo for those owners of O2 equipped 15RC bikes on this forum that SimoneV11’s post here on V11lemans wasn’t picked up on back in 2008... ________________________ SIMONEV11 Posted May 10, 2008 THE PROBE is LAMBDA you MUST BRING THE BOSCH LSH24 YOU HAVE THE LAW TOO SLOWLY LSH15 ________________________ Anyhoo... seems your mind’s closed on this Lucky Phil - & you don’t have the V11 models that this O2 swap would benefit anyhow... so I’ll close loop & refer you back to carefully reread Ube’s post and reiterate Ube’s comment, “the bike is more enjoyable etc”. Ciao down

👍😋 Curiosity got the better of me too after I translated Ube’s post - and importantly the procedure was easy & the price was right! I also had another bung welded in on my right exhaust when mounting my MassMoto crossover so I can swap it over from left to right as I wish. (like to have two in unison if possible!) I half expected, if nothing else - I’d have merely renewed a consumable item as they are a finite component so would be no harm done. But the more you look into it - be happy not all sensors are created equal...! The LSH24 upgrade is far better for O2 15RC V11’s. It’s low/mid (under 4000rpm) changed manners - smooth, stable & superior performance is phenomenal. Another observation I should add - the boundary between closed & open & back again is seamless. The ECU may well be the brain but the O2 sensor is its spinal cord - together the Central Nervous System! Let’s finesse a little more - & differentiate open & closed... Open loop is basically a system without feedback - it doesn’t make any adjustments if the fuel mixture is not burning well & will run rich or lean at any given time with no correction. A motorcycle operating within closed loop will sense unburned oxygen & sends a signal to the ECU that will allow the ECU to correct the mixture for the next firing. An oxygen sensor is a chemical generator - it’s constantly making a comparison between the oxygen in the exhaust manifold & the air outside - if this comparison shows little or no oxygen in the exhaust a voltage is generated. With the ECU utilising O2 sensor feedback to adjust the fuel/air mixture - the time constant of the sensor is CRITICAL - as the ability of the ECU to control the fuel/air ratio depends upon the response time of the sensor. A sluggish O2 response time degrades the ECU system performance. Failing O2 sensor symptoms include: increased emissions, increased fuel consumption, hesitation on acceleration, stalling, surging or hunting, rough idling. The O2 sensor is constantly in a state of transition between high & low voltage. Manufacturers call this crossing of the 0.45 volt mark O2 “cross counts”. The more cross counts the oxygen sensor generates, the better the sensor. The higher the cross count, the shorter the time period - and the more responsive the total system. This improved LSH24 lightning oscillation & constant flip-flop back & forth from rich to lean allows the ECU to operate at peak efficiency.

The 15RC ECU is used on O2 sensor equipped V11’s. The 15RC hardware also was used on later Breva’s, Nevada’s, Griso’s & I think the early Stelvio’s - with only the installed software mapping being specific to each model. However Tomchri, just to clarify there is nothing too slow with the Magneti Marelli 15RC ECU - only the original spec LSH15 sensor slow calibration curve input wasn’t able to keep pace with what the 15RC ECU needed to produce a smooth, stable closed loop running state. The LSH24 sensor calibration curve is 10x faster - therefore the fuelling is more accurate - the slow LSH15 sensor input influenced the lurching struggle from too lean, to too rich, back to too lean, again back to too rich ad nauseam... whilst in closed loop range. In fact, whilst the LSH24 is 10x faster - it’s improved speed still can’t match the 15RC’s ECU’s inherent output capability. In fact, any ECU is enhanced by having an O2 sensor to provide feedback input - this enables it to check & analyse that what it is doing (commands) is accurate in accordance to its programming parameters. However, most factory programs in closed loop have just been designed for required emissions & fuel economy. But then again if dyno mapped this emphasis can be modified for whatever the user wants. Read up on Lambda tuning. Whether your bike has a O2 sensor or not - the first thing dyno tuners do is whack a wideband sensor up the pipe to get that essential O2 feedback. But if your bike doesn’t come equipped with O2 - just crack open another IPA & don’t worry ‘bout all this palaver... Only on those models subject to complying with the Euro emission requirements laws.

@KINDOY2 has magnesium wheels adapted... Ooh yum, magnesium sounds nice - always admired the old school gold 18” Marvic’s. Any link or pics Docc...? 😋 A thousand words isn't much help to a mute. Tend to agree with you Mikko - QD’s look so right filling that under void. One small suggestion - try and get the level as perfectly aligned with the sump line as possible - some I’ve seen seem to have an excessively droopy slope downward to the rear wheel.

Okay, sorry for not getting back to this earlier - but got caught up with the usual stuff. So following the two adaptation rides under 3000rpm - I went on a ride into the city of some 45 minutes with plenty of stoplights, roundabouts etc. the bike was an absolute joy - smooth, stable tempo with every manoeuvre, gear change. Then I took the bike out beyond the suburbs to give it some gas. Perfect. What was most notable, rolling off the throttle the bIke has lost all its pops & burbles emitted from the M4’s. Zero. All revs, all gears, downhill coasting from high to low revs - nothing. Buttery smooth. Even after services from various renowned Guzzi mechanics - the bike has never been better. The new Bosch LSH24 0258003805 sensor cost €41.22 - sent from AutoDoc Germany to my friend in the UK for another €20.64 postage & 20% VAT. Friend posted it to me for around £13 all up. (AutoDoc doesn’t send items outside EU to Australia). Anybody who has an O2 equipped V11 with the 15RC ECU should swap in a quality LSH24 sensor. It is such an inexpensive item, easy to swap over - don’t bother with any ECU modifiers until this is done first. Brilliant upgrade. My bike has literally been reborn. Safer, smooth & vigorous. In my view - there’s nothing wrong with the Magneti Marelli 15RC ECU - any suggestion to disable O2 sensor V11’s has been made redundant. The ECU has simply been limited by GIGO - garbage in garbage out. Get rid of those slow crappy old LSH15 sensors! Finally, I wish to give all credit to the post by MotoUbe on Anima Guzzista forum. Thanks to Ube - my bike is as comparably smooth to any Honda or BMW. Cheers fella’s! 👍😎

Okay... before I go further - on my bike the O2 sensor site was relocated on the left header just in front of the oil dipstick when a MassMoto X-over was installed. The existing O2 sensor was just rerouted to that location. Whilst my bike was noticeably freer-breathing from mid revs all the way to redline and my riding habits had shifted up the range by some 500-1000rpms - what should be noted was that there was no real actual change to my bikes modus operandi style in the low range. There was that occasional fart, sometimes a stumble, a miss... all the usual things that’s inherent in our V11’s character. However, after translating Ube’s 2006 posting recommendation I set to sourcing & pricing up the genuine Bosch LSH24 sensor identified as the LS3805 aka 0258003805. Removing the existing sensor it was a surprise to find it was an NTK OZA341-BB1 sensor. More research subsequently revealed this was the NTK manufactured equivalent to Bosch‘s LSH15 calibration curve. After install for the first two rides on seperate days an adaptation procedure was followed: 1. Start engine & allow to idle for 5 minutes. 2. Drive vehicle for 5 minutes between 20 & 30 MPH. Do not allow RPM’s to exceed 3000 RPM’s. 3. Drive vehicle for 15 minutes between 40 & 60 MPH. Do not allow RPM’s to exceed 3000 RPM’s. 4. Stop vehicle & allow to idle for 5 minutes. (It’s late - be back tomorrow... 💤)

A number of months ago I translated an Italian AG forum posted in 2006. For O2 equipped V11 owners I share what started as some interesting research and culminating in implementation which I’ll come to later... Let’s get into it! 👍😎 Google translated: motoube wrote: I'll tell you what I know and why in my opinion the probe used on the Guzzi can be thrown into the rock and replaced with a more modern one. the lambda probe, which some call the O2 sensor or lambda probe, is placed in the exhaust line. we are interested in the one positioned upstream of the catalyst. this probe generates an electrical signal (in our case between 0 and 1 volt nominal) whose value is related to the oxygen content in the exhaust gas this content varies with the variation of the more or less fat carburation. the control unit reads this signal and, taking into account many other factors (TPS position, air temperature, engine temperature ...) makes corrections using the maps it has loaded inside. it will increase injection times for fat and shorten for lean. in general, above a certain speed, the probe signal is ignored. the probe used by Guzzi corresponds to a BOSH probe which has certain characteristics corresponding to the BOSH specification "LSH15", in jargon called the LSh15 calibration curve this probe was used on cars starting from 1992/93, it was immediately seen that its sensitivity and response speed were INADEQUATE TO THE REAL CONDITIONS OF USE OF THE VEHICLE. BOSCH ran for cover and created the probe with the LSH24 calibration curve. much much faster and much much more sensitive. realize that the LSH15 probe has such a slow response time to the variation of the exhaust gases that the control unit takes a thousand or more readings of the lambda value .... the LSH24 instead has a very good sensitivity and a response time equivalent to the reading interval of the ECU. on the cars the lsh15 was replaced starting from 94 with the lsh24, ALSO ON THE CIRCULATING WHEEL, for example FIAT ordered the assistance network to replace the "office" probe on all the cars that for any reason showed up in the workshop but they did not make a nominal recall of the call. in this way, 95% of the current assets will be remedied within two years. it is for this reason that I recommend (and do) to replace the probe originally equipped with the most updated version. it costs something, but the bike is better, the catalyst benefits from it, consumes less, the bike is more fun, etc. among all the probes available on the market, I have indicated to you to ask the spare parts dealer for the PUNTO 55/60/75 probe from 98 with a single 4-wire connector. because'? because it has the same connector that we have, because it has the longest cable but it doesn't create problems because it is the version with the right calibration because that pointed model is the most widespread car of that period and therefore it is the car model for which the greatest number of spare parts are sold, which increases their availability and decreases their price. the same probe is in the universal version, without connector, it costs about 65 euros, you have to cut the wiring of your probe and weld the wires and seal wire by wire with heat shrink, you have to respect the correct wiring (ground, signal, two heater wires) , sometimes the color of the threads does not match. do what you like and let the guzzi do what she wants. I'm replacing the probe. Uberto End translation. It certainly pricked my interest so I went searching here @ V11lemans for more information - & found one lonesome piece of advice by SimoneV11 but it appears it may have been overlooked as no further discussion referenced it. Another excellent article source was found giving more helpful depth into what’s exactly required of the role O2 sensors play. If this interests you please take the time to read. http://www.autodiagnosticsandpublishing.com/feature/o2-sensor-testing.html So I’ll just add one more link for now about the O2 sensor upgrade (about 2/3’s down page). Ignore the heading ‘Breva’ as it pertains to our V11’s. http://www.guzzifan.com/moto-guzzi-tuning-codes-infos-tips/ Have to leave this for now but will get back with further report. 💤

Hmm... Moto Guzzi has perfect opportunity to boldly leapfrog - like it once did with the Otto Cilindri - introducing a new reconfigured Vtwin! https://electriccarsforeveryone.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/cits-two-stroke-engine.pdf 2021 will introduce a new dawn - whatever they’ve got cooking I sure hope they Seize the Day! 😏 https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.grandprix247.com/2020/01/15/red-mist-will-we-see-2-stroke-formula-1-engines-in-the-future/amp/ F1 is drawing bold new plans for 2025

Cat memes... Really? 🤔 ________________ (5 minutes later) You’re damn right! Well, I never...

Yep. Maybe the naked munter tickles your fancy Pete. 😁

This effort in asphalt&rubber is more appealing than the red throwback above... If the factory could ‘add lightness’ of say 20-30kg to the coming Stradale version they’d have another winner on their hands...

Fancy a little scalding tea & hotcakes? https://riders.drivemag.com/news/best-selling-adventure-bikes-here-are-the-most-successful-models-in-2019-germany-and-italy

Phwoarrr! Carbon fibre sexy... Guareschi’s showing the way... keep an eye out for the Naked version

http://www.moongarage.it/2019/05/27/moto-guzzi-1400-8v-pikes-peak/

That’s quite an interesting snippet there RL... are you indicating some sort of ‘finesse’ beyond the standardised Decent T/Up? ‘It can be done.’ So what tune changes made the all day rider difference for you...?

You need more than simply pissing around with exercises fooling yourself LowRyter. Symptoms severe enough to disturb sleep & your feet cramping when reclining or wearing thongs combined with reduced flexibility - are indications you should be riding your bike & parking it in front of a garage for humans with a sign out front that says, BEST DAMN CHIROPRACTOR IN TOWN.

Thanks Cliff. 🍻 Nice guide elucidating each step by step up of ignition concepts & grading of inherent limitations. 🤓 Making sense of various ignition options is daunting when the blurb may be minimal or worse overblown. P.s. Just to seek clarity - is the Rec-Ignition module on or off the options table?

Touché! 🤣 I wasn’t actually meaning it had anything to do with the fuelling per se Chuck - I was rather noting they had been converted to carbs - hence the understanding ie., no longer requiring an ECU. Yep, Cliff is ridgy didge. Care to cast an opinion for further information that for those Guzzi models that are pre-ECU (or converted) is this a worthwhile item?

Ah, I see - the 2019 Indian, 2006 Harley & 2015 R9T have been converted to carbs & done away with their ECU’s. Okay thanks Cliff for your assistance.

Hope I’m not waking the dead here - but I do mosey around searching topics sometimes. It’s a pita just having lots of disparate threads on same/ similar subject so I’d thought it best just to ask my question here after reading this thread. Am wondering if anyone has any knowledgeable opinion on this product - & whether it has any benefits as an upgrade to our V11’s? http://www.altmann.haan.de/P1/

Sorry Kane - those two are really just V11 Lash-ups! At the other end of the spectrum - the V11 Titanium is probably at the apex of V11 Custom. Some other’s take the middle road..