Lucky Phil
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Posts posted by Lucky Phil
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18 minutes ago, MartyNZ said:
Good job. Better suspension, lower unsprung weight. How does it handle?
I've been wondering if there is a tire that has lower weight. A cheap way to reduce unsprung weight? I've not been able to find any info on this. I weighed a new Bridgestone Battlax 120/70ZR17 T32 at 4.39kg, and a worn BT023 at slightly heavier. Have you weighed any tires?
No just the tyre and wheel combinations but the tyres were 170 and 180 so not much use there. The rear shock is better but probably heavier although it has an alloy body but preload adjuster assembly will weigh a bit. I'd be interested to know what a std V11 Sport weighs in at. It would be above what Guzzi advertised at the time I'm sure now.
It's also got the later 43mm forks and much lighter 25mm hollow front axle. How's it handle? Better than before by a decent margin.
Phil
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So I weighed the V10 Sport today. The bike has a wheel/tyre/axle combo that's 9KG lighter than stock and a single plate aluminium clutch and flywheel and about 80% Titanium fasteners for reference. It also has the chin spoiler, bikini fairing and a Wilbers full spec shock with remote hydraulic preload adjuster.
Total weight......231Kg with all fluids and no fuel.
Front 114Kg- Rear 122Kg minus 5KG for fuel.
The centre of the wheelbase is in line with the gearbox to engine interface.
I've never liked those scales.
Phil
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9 hours ago, gstallons said:
The volume of fluid "pushed" by the master cylinder has to go somewhere , so it goes into the slave cylinder .
Leverage works in this system but it has nothing to do with the volume of fluid moved.
Not quite right. The ratio area of the master to the slave cylinder determines the force that can be applied (and the lever ratio as well but we'll leave that) and the "travel" of the master and therefore the volume of fluid displaced determines the travel of the slave.
Phil
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6 hours ago, Cold Desert Rat said:
Hey DOCC,
I like the Oberon. Lifetime warranty, super fancy seal design and many shiny colors. About $150USD
As I recall
AF1 wanted $25 for a new Aprilia cylinder but said it would take four months to get 
I would be honored to have my contribution added to our august assembly. Truly, I am humbled
Thats about 20% what the rest of the world want for them. I think AF1's pricing might be a little suspect.
Phil
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2 hours ago, audiomick said:
I seem to recall reading (from Beard) that the ECU can only read a minimum value of 3.9 degrees. To set the throttle bodies manually, a multi-meter is recommended. The voltage at fully closed should be about 150 mV. .
My point is when you mark the throttle housing to give you a rough indication of the throttle position don't mark the fully closed position as zero or you'll be even further out in your already rough and ready attempt to indicate throttle opening.
Yes a multimeter is required because GD isn't accurate enough.
Phil
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2 hours ago, David Konings said:
Hi Phil,
Thanks. Good start for creating my personal fuel sensor coming winter.
One questions because my Scura doesn't have the old sensor anymore: how deep (high) should the sensor be placed into the tank?
Thanks.
David
From the sealing face on the sensor flange to the centre of the sensor is 135mm plus the 2 mm thick sealing washer so 137mm total. I made the sealing washers myself from HDPE and will make any plastic components I need from the same if the final design needs a plastic component.
Phil
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14 hours ago, Rob NZ said:
Thank you Phil. Good points. Co is zeroed but I should check/calibrate the throttle closed position.
Just see what Guzzidiag indicates as closed throttle degrees. The fuel map has throttle position break points below the actual throttle blade degrees at the set idle position. So your bike will probably have a throttle angle of 4 degrees or so at idle. Dont assume that the lower throttle break points like 2, 2.4 2.9 etc are a factor when you are estimating your throttle percentage from fully closed when riding. Your base line closed angle is probably around 4 degrees not zero. Just sayin.
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4 hours ago, p6x said:
When does it become a "fast idle"? mine is below 1000 rpm. Is it considered slow? Guzzi says 1200 rpm but I like my below 1000 idle.
That is misguided.
Phil
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18 hours ago, Rob NZ said:
Hello all. Thank you for your various replies. By way of an update I have tracked down a Bosch LSH-24 Lamba sensor and I will try that when it arrives. In the meantime I have carried on tuning the maps with the Lamba Sensor off. In this regard I have observed Lucky Phil's comments and I am leaving the acceleration map alone and focusing on the fuel map. I have put a mark on the throttle and some masking tape on the throttle body. Using Guzzi Diag I have put lines on the masking tape corresponding with a number of throttle opening points with reference to the fuel map so I know where I am on the map when I am riding. I have been increasing the fueling particularly at the smaller throttle openings. The improvement is dramatic. The bike was running lean (probably exacerbated by the air box mods). The motor now pulls smoother and is more eager to accelerate. It is particularly noticeable when you blip the throttle for gearchanges. So will report again but thank you all again in the meantime.
Don't forget to calibrate your throttle closed position to the angle guzzidiag reads out as a closed position. It's not perfectly accurate but it's not zero either remember. Zero out the Co setting as well.
Phil
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4 hours ago, audiomick said:
I read once in a push-bike magazine "the cheapest place to save weight on th bike is on the rider".
Still, I expect to be putting a lithium battery in at least one of my bikes in the foreseeable future.
Yea. Guess what look you get when you tell a club racer that before he starts drilling shift levers and foot peg brackets to save weight he may want to consider shedding the extra 20kg he's carrying.
Phil
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41 minutes ago, audiomick said:
You're right, of course, and the diffenerence in acceleration is certainly so small as to be irrelevant.
But still, a couple of kilos less high up on the bike can't be bad for the handling.
It's a cumulative thing at the end of the day. On my bike the wheels and axles have saved 9 kg's and the clipons a bit as well as the mufflers and cross over and various Titanium bolts (In fact just about 90% the bolts on the bike) A 4-5 kg weight saving on the battery would be quite a nice reduction in one hit added to the other stuff when it comes time to buy a new battery. A good saving in dollars/KG esp if you need a battery anyway. Free weight reduction. I still use the std battery but next time I'll go to the Lithium I think. I must weigh my bike and see what the total is.
Phil
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On 10/25/2023 at 6:36 AM, David Konings said:
Hi @Lucky Phil,
You write "I have replace my sensor with a blanking plug until I get a chance to manufacture a new aluminium and HDPE probe holder. The thermistor is no issue to source but you also need fuel proof wiring and potting compound. I have a design and materials but need some spare time."
I have the same on my bike (Scura with external fuel pump). The previous owner replaced the sensor by a blanking plug.
Last years I use the milage, but would like some working sensor - but no OEM sensor can be found...
Would you be so kind to share your design so I can make a sensor too.Thanks,
DavidThe Netherlands
The plastic housing isn't optimal as it eventually becomes impossible to seal. As soon as you remove it and reinstall it won't reseal in some cases. So aluminium housing is what I'm planning. looking at the original design gives a clue to the fact it's not a no brainer situation. Many of the thermistors which are easy to source have an external earth wire soldered onto the case which won't work on the V11 sensor because the external earth wire wont go through the tank fitting dia wise. So that needs to be removed and the earth done via the fitting at the top as in the std version which I have disassembled. It's one of those things where when you pull it apart and study it the details become apparent and the complexities involved in remanufacturing obvious. So the original plastic housing has an aluminium fitting pressed into it and the thermistor is crimped into that. The aluminium housing has a drain hole and an earth lead crimped into it and the insulated live wire through the centre. The plastic housing is hollow down to the drain hole in the image and the rest is filled with an epoxy resin encapsulating the wiring where it exits the tank fitting. The dia must be kept std as thats all that will fit through the tank fitting opening. Basically it's a case of making the plastic fitting in aluminium and the thermistor is either crimped in place or maybe a small pair of set screws below flush. Fuel proof epoxy, wiring and heat shrink.
Phil
Body drain hole
Thermistor in place but with with crimp machined off
Back side of aluminium fitting with earth wire crimped onto fitting, drain hole in fitting and supply wire through the fitting in the middle.
Top and bottom of thermistor canister has drain holes.
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4 hours ago, audiomick said:
Yes, that matches what I have read regarding various different models. It seems it doesn't matter in which bike the ECU was origionally installed, as long as it is the same type as the one in the bike in question, it can be re-programmed and made to work. Using a different type of ECU than the original is far more complicated, as a map has to be created "from scratch".
I believe Lucky Phil had to do with that issue with his V10 Motor in his V11 Sport, i.e the retaining the ECU from the V11 and making it work with the V10 motor that origionally had a different ECU.
This is true. 15M running a Daytona engine with my own map.
Phil
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On 10/17/2023 at 3:08 PM, Rob NZ said:
Hello All
I have been following the forum for some time now but this is my first time posting. I enjoy the forum and really appreciate the information and support.
As you can see form my profile I have a 2004 Rosso Corsa. It has done just over 60,000KMs and it is a nice bike to ride.
I have tuned it many times using the "decent tune up" protocol. It runs well except that every now and then it will cough when blipping and changing down and cut out.
It is stock except that some time ago I did the "Phil teardrop mods" to open up the airbox. It still has a paper filter. The cough and cut out issue was there before the mods and has not changed since the mods were done.
My bike has a Lamba senor. More recently I downloaded Guzzi Diag switched off the sensor and started tuning the maps. It's a "rabbit hole" for sure but lots of fun. I have cured the cough by enriching the fuel map at low revs/throttle openings. The engine also runs smoothly now when in traffic at 2k to 3K revs with no lean stumble.
The only issue is the underlying stock acceleration enrichment map which of course cuts in when you switch the Lamba sensor off. Except for wide throttle openings at low revs the boxes in the matrix are all at 107 which I think can not be right I have modified mine but I am not sure how far I might be out because I am just tuning by "seat of pants".
Can anybody help me with a bin of an acceleration enrichment map from a none Lamba bike which might help as a cross check/starting point?
Thank you
Rob
I suggest you leave it alone. So all the V11 maps I've looked at, Meinolfs custom map, the std v11 from 2000, the Rosso Mandello, the factory map for the Titanium exhaust all use the exact same acceleration map numbers. I've never touched my accel map which is the same as the std V11 2000 map and all the others running a Daytona engine. The std 16M Daytona and Centauro maps dont even have an accel map.
Phil
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I bought one of these a while back and used it to mount the new tyres to the PVM wheels on my V10 Sport. I've looked at various tyre changers over the years such as the No Mar etc and was always unimpressed by the size and the fact you still need to lever on the edge of the rim and unless they are bolted down you seem to chase the unit itself around the shop floor. The Rabaconda is brilliant to use. The force of stretching the tyre is directed into the ground so it's very stable and the ratchet system is easy on the body and the "ducks head design which is basically the same as a powered machine keeps the rim safe. For people that do miles and the cost of tyre fitting these days it's a good investment. I rate it.
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37 minutes ago, guzzigary said:
Check you haven’t missed reattaching one or more cables to the new battery.
Yes easy to miss a cable connection on the v11.
Phil
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Ignition switch.
Phil
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A few things. Lambda sensors were fitted to, well most injected vehicles for a few purposes and in V11 terms none of them were to make for a particularly better riding experience. They were installed for emission and to some extent fuel economy related reasons and for CAT considerations. So at "steady state throttle settings" and a certain rpm band the O2 sensor trimmed the fuel to stio correct or whatever it's target happened to be. Generally this area was what we would call the cruise area. Steady state rpm and throttle angle. Freeway cruising in the main. The other area Lambda sensors are advantageous is for Long and short term fuel trim applications to trim the fuel system as the name suggests. So the ecu can compensate for engine wear and various other mechanical degradation and trim the main fuel maps accordingly, LTFT. It can also adjust short term fuel trim STFT to compensate for things like dirty air filters etc and also general driving habits. The STFT can be " nulled" by pulling the ecu fuse or disconnecting the battery as it's a volatile memory. Commuting will in a lot of cases influence the STFT and affect the riding/driving experience in a slightly negative way. Pulling the ECU fuse will reset this and the STFT will revert to the original zero setting and improve the engine running slightly until the trim shifts it again. It's an arguable thing but lots of people do it.
Wide band sensors work better than the cheap narrow band sensors that's been a fact for many years. So basically the LAMBDA system in the V11 context and most earlier generation motorcycle systems were for emission related reasons combined with fuel economy not for a better riding/driving experience and in car applications for the same reason plus the afore mentioned LTFT and STFT ability because cars do a lot more miles than motorcycles generally with a lot less attentions to keeping them tuned and serviced and running well. If you have a V11 with the later 15RC ecu and Lambda fitted then simply disconnecting the Lambda and mapping the ecu will give you a nice result without the Lambda system complexity. Maybe the fuel economy will be slightly worse, not sure but then again if it's nicely mapped it will be slightly better than stock probably.
Phil
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16 minutes ago, p6x said:
Just to mess up this Marquez=>MotoGP=>WSBK thread...
Andrea Iannone will race for the Ducati team GoEleven in 2024.
This is also something which will be interesting to follow, given all the musical chairs that happened:
Toprak Razgatlioglu to BMW
Jonathan Rea to Yamaha
Bautista and Iannone on Ducati
Gigi has a history of liking to give riders he believes were treated unfairly, overlooked or considered has-beens a chance or second chance' Iannones signing is no surprise to me.
Phil
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14 minutes ago, cash1000 said:
RM goes now. I've had it sitting in sun for last hour. Picking maybe water in electrics has dried out. Any way off to rally
What's my first rule about troubleshooting before you do anything else. Ask yourself the question "what was the last thing I did before the issue arose"? Wash the bike? fuel the bike? Have the seat off? replace the battery? You get the idea.
Phil
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MotoGP is fast disappearing up it's own arse like F1 has. Less and less relevant to the buying public and less and less about the riding and more and more about the tech and the "show". That's why WSB is so much better than Motogp these days. Aero and ride height devices have ruined MotoGP as smarter people close to racing predicted it would. It hasn't completely wrecked it but it's on the pathway. Now we have a situation where every rider is riding at 100% all the time and the difference in winning or not winning is down to the bike and what setting or tyre you chose or whether or not you got into a group and your front tyre overheated or you had a poor qualifying or someone got a tow from you in qualifying and although you were actually faster than them on a hot lap you towed them around and they gained 2 tenths on you thanks to your tow and you ended up two rows back on the grid to them because of it! When a rider can no longer "make the difference" in a race by shear determination and sticking his neck out to overcome a slight setting issue or tyre choice then it's going in the wrong direction.
Speaking of qualifying we need to return to the one lap shootout system. Riders getting a tow off faster riders or riders getting shafted on their last "hot lap" because another rider has crashed and brought out the yellows is a joke. Now qualifying on the front two rows of the grid is mandatory for a decent race result because of the Aero and suspension issues you need to have a truer picture of who has the raw speed and award those riders accordingly. No point having a rider who should actually be on the 4th or 5th row on raw pace actually being on the front or second row because he used the faster rider for a "tow". The flag drops and he just gets in the way of the guy who's actually got the pace.
Aero is the reason front tyres overheat and the reason overtaking is more difficult and it's totally a blind alley for road bikes. Same as squatting devices and front suspension launch devices. Because Dorna dumbed down the electronics and banned electronic on the fly suspension control which are a direct benefit and eminently transferrable to road bikes the MotoGP engineers turned their attention to Aero as another measure to claw back some of the loss. Problem is none of the Aero or manual squatting devices are useable on a road bike so the technical investment is a dead end to the manufacturers and the consumer. Don't confuse the aero on superbikes as useful they are almost entirely a decoration and a joke to the aesthetics of a road sports bike. Have you seen the ridiculous front wing on a BMW and they still can't win races with them. At the core of motorcycle racing is the rider NOT the tech. The further down the none relevant for the consumer tech road the less it becomes about the rider. It's what has always separated motorcycle racing from the joke F1 has become. If you are going to move ahead with the tech which is inevitable then at least direct it down the path that benefits and is relevant to the consumer. Speedway is one form of Motorcycle racing where the tech has deliberately been capped for 40 years or more to make it a "sport" about the racers NOT the motorcycle. Seems to have worked well. Not supporting those measures entirely but the current direction by Dorna is all about the "show" and not the sport. I see now the riders are forming a union so they have some say in the direction of MotoGP racing. Might be a good thing I think.
Phil
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3 hours ago, docc said:
Yeah, someday, I would like to smooth these corners out. Especially that ridiculous ignition advance in the low rpm at low throttle opening . . .
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If you load Meinolfs map it's done for you as is the fuel map. His advance is between 21-31 around the same area at 5.2 degrees T/A and 26-29 degrees at 36 degrees T/A @ 3200.That would be my suggestion. It's free to do.
Phil
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10 hours ago, Formula Alfa said:
Good afternoon everyone,
Well, I am pleased to report that my V11 is now hiccup free at lower rpm
, for the benefit of Uk Members, I used "REPS" Motorcycles in Caldicot, Royston, ex TT racer, has a rolling road and has been tuning motorcycle engines for a long time, he has worked on countless Guzzi`s previously and after I described the hesitation/coughing etc he knew exactly what to do and was able to tune the engine richening the mixture with the limited adjustment available as standard.
Lovely roll on power and acceleration now, nice and smooth and getting approx extra 5bhp between 2 and 4000 rpm.
Since I last posted on here, I have now also with the help of UK member Steve S, had the updated stronger shift return spring fitted, so another box ticked.
I have now turned my attention to ergonomics and want to find some suitable risers to come up and back a bit, after reading previous post on here, I like the idea of MPH risers retaining the standard handlbars so if anyone has a pair for sale, I am up for a deal!
Regards,
Formula Alfa.
There is no limit to the adjustability of the mapping. You can make it anything you like in any region, both fuel and ignition.
Phil
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10 hours ago, Formula Alfa said:
Good afternoon everyone,
Well, I am pleased to report that my V11 is now hiccup free at lower rpm
, for the benefit of Uk Members, I used "REPS" Motorcycles in Caldicot, Royston, ex TT racer, has a rolling road and has been tuning motorcycle engines for a long time, he has worked on countless Guzzi`s previously and after I described the hesitation/coughing etc he knew exactly what to do and was able to tune the engine richening the mixture with the limited adjustment available as standard.
Lovely roll on power and acceleration now, nice and smooth and getting approx extra 5bhp between 2 and 4000 rpm.
Since I last posted on here, I have now also with the help of UK member Steve S, had the updated stronger shift return spring fitted, so another box ticked.
I have now turned my attention to ergonomics and want to find some suitable risers to come up and back a bit, after reading previous post on here, I like the idea of MPH risers retaining the standard handlbars so if anyone has a pair for sale, I am up for a deal!
Regards,
Formula Alfa.
Thats a statement that can't be uttered until you have put a few thousand miles on the bike in all weather conditions.
Out of interest I loaded and compared Meinolfs V11 fuel map to the std v11 Sport map and looked in that low throttle angle V 3000 rpm range and noted it's massively richer in that general area. Although Meinolf has messed about a bit with the throttle and RPM break points in some areas it's around 100% richer than the std v11 map. Interesting.
Phil
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Weigh-in
in Technical Topics
Posted
Well my bike also has the Stucchi crossover and the Agostini mufflers for probably a weight saving of 6Kg. As an estimate I'd say the Daytona engine weighs maybe 6-8Kg more than the V11 engine. Lighter rods, crank but heavier heads inc cams etc, and valve drive gear. So I've dumped around 16Kg added about 6-8 and somehow ended up with a bike heavier than a std V11 Sport.
Phil