Pierre Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 QUOTE(dlaing @ Aug 8 2007, 08:45 AM) But just to keep it going... I recalled a better word... that represents slack plus cush, and that word is slop. Wouldn't that be more properly termed slush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Wouldn't that be more properly termed slush? uhm... as opposed to quack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Wouldn't that be more properly termed slush? So, the experts won't except lash as a word to define slack plus cush, and they won't take slop as the word, but slush has got to be the word! uhm... as opposed to quack? quack is what is between your cheeks that shows when you bend over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Of course, if all the parts in the driveline from the splines back were a press fit, we wouldn't need the cush drive in the first place, so this exercise is beyond academic, but whatever. I just wanted to correct the notion that drilling the cush drive rubbers somehow changes manufactured tolerances anywhere in the Guzzi driveline. Of course it does not change the tolerances, but if for academia's sake all was press fit so that there was no slack, I am surprised that one would insist that there would be no slop in the driveline due to the springs in the clutch and the rubbers in the cush. Whatever! It boils down to semantics and the majority gets to right the rules as there is no dictionary definition of lash or slop that defines it. I guess the only words you except are cushion or spring, even if softer rubbers would result in a sloppier drive if everything were press fitted. No excuses left, Dave. You have an immediate ACTION PLAN! Time to stand and deliver! Can you? Will you? Between you and me, we sure have a way with much ado about nothing. I simply mention urethane and I get fire and brimstone. I challenge the statement that drilling the rubbers won't increase driveline lash, and I get treated like an ass. If the definition of driveline lash is as you say it is, then the statement that drilling the holes won't increase lash is about a meaningful as saying rain is Spain doesn't cause flowers to grow in Maine. Whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 quack is what is between your cheeks that shows when you bend over. Unless you're Ralph, in which case the cheese 'comfort' wedges become a visible embarrasment at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Of course it does not change the tolerances, but if for academia's sake all was press fit so that there was no slack, I am surprised that one would insist that there would be no slop in the driveline due to the springs in the clutch and the rubbers in the cush. Whatever! It boils down to semantics and the majority gets to right the rules as there is no dictionary definition of lash or slop that defines it. I guess the only words you except are cushion or spring, even if softer rubbers would result in a sloppier drive if everything were press fitted. Between you and me, we sure have a way with much ado about nothing. I simply mention urethane and I get fire and brimstone. I challenge the statement that drilling the rubbers won't increase driveline lash, and I get treated like an ass. If the definition of driveline lash is as you say it is, then the statement that drilling the holes won't increase lash is about a meaningful as saying rain is Spain doesn't cause flowers to grow in Maine. Whatever Recall that there is also a spring washer stack inside the transmission referred to as a cush drive. I can't see how the clutch springs would add, er, uh, lash-or-whatever unless the clutch is slipping. Certainly the softer the rubbers in the wheel hub, the more 'give.' After all, that's the idea isn't it? To create more controlled 'give' taking force away from more expensive, hard to replace components? now, I haven't looked up 'give' in Wikepedia or anything; it just seems to have the right feel for that-phenomenon-which-is-not-lash-or-slack-but-still-isn't-solidly-hooked-up. If you keep it up forum moderators will code software to insert the term 'loosey-goosey' anytime you type in cush/slack/lash/slop/slush. Then try to get your valve loosey-goosey set right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Then try to get your valve loosey-goosey set right! Friction plates, now valves – you're trying to get this to 15 pages, aren't you? Yeah, valves. Same principle to reduce shock in the valve / seat interface. I drilled mine like this. Thought it better not to drill the stem. Are valves necessary anyway? I wonder if Guzzi are just adding weight where it's not needed? That would be typical. I heard that Ducati use desmos or something – carved from a semi-firm material: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Recall that there is also a spring washer stack inside the transmission referred to as a cush drive. I can't see how the clutch springs would add, er, uh, lash-or-whatever unless the clutch is slipping. Certainly the softer the rubbers in the wheel hub, the more 'give.' After all, that's the idea isn't it? To create more controlled 'give' taking force away from more expensive, hard to replace components? now, I haven't looked up 'give' in Wikepedia or anything; it just seems to have the right feel for that-phenomenon-which-is-not-lash-or-slack-but-still-isn't-solidly-hooked-up. If you keep it up forum moderators will code software to insert the term 'loosey-goosey' anytime you type in cush/slack/lash/slop/slush. Then try to get your valve loosey-goosey set right! I love it! Drilling the pucks in your Guzzi, makes it more loosey-goosey! Thank you for understanding the need for the appropriate word. Slush and slop weren't quite cutting it. I am pretty sure the clutch springs add to the loosey-goosey driveline. Thanks for reminding me about that other cushdrive. I forgot all about it. Do the five speeds have one too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 . . .I am pretty sure the clutch springs add to the loosey-goosey driveline. Another incorrect, "loosey goosey" speculation, Dave. Pete covered this waaaaaaay back on post #94. There are no "cush" springs in the dual disk clutches that most of our V11 Guzzi's have in them -- including yours, mine and Docc's. The only springs in the dual disk clutch that exist act only to clamp the drive components (flywheel, intermediate plate, and pressure plate) together with the driven friction disks in the clutch pack. Single-disk clutches, including many I've replaced on cars, typically have "cush" springs arranged circumferentially (is that a word?) within the clutch hubs. Please, PLEASE don't become even more confused with this idea, Dave. I, for one, just couldn't bear the thought of pages upon pages of posts full of wild speculation about installing circumferential titanium cush drive springs -- or urethane for that matter -- in your "cushless" dual-disk clutch hub! It just dawned on me that what I've been participating in here is a long term "Whack-a-Mole" contest. . . You're pretty quick, Dave. But not quick enough. . . See, you've taught me to hone my reflexes to the point where now, sometimes I can actually "nip 'em in the bud" before they even poke their beady-eyed little heads out. . . Got that rear wheel out, ready for the Great Urethane Cush Drive Junk Science Experiment yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan M Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Yeah, valves. Same principle to reduce shock in the valve / seat interface. I drilled mine like this. Thought it better not to drill the stem. I love this, everyone should do it, you know, less reciprocating weight = higher red-line. Hell, grind down the stems & rockers to lighten the mass. Don't forget to polish the push rods. Just think of the added horse power! Now don't start taking a microscope to this operation, just get out to the garage and start the weight savings today. Oh yea, for our entertainment, don't forget to post pics of the carnage after wards. Maybe we can earn points identifying mangled parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Nah, youre still W-A-Y off Dan. If you *really* want to save weight you take the crank out and throw it away! I mean? Look at it! It's a sodding great lump of drop forged steel! It weighs ten Kg or more! Fancy having to lug that around everywhere! If you take this to it's logical conclusion you can in fact just get rid of the bike! This will free up lots of time that could be spent riding and it can be wasted by flogging horses that are so far beyond dead it's not funny on internet chat boards! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Nah, youre still W-A-Y off Dan. If you *really* want to save weight you take the crank out and throw it away! I mean? Look at it! It's a sodding great lump of drop forged steel! It weighs ten Kg or more! Fancy having to lug that around everywhere! Leave us not be so silly, Gents! Let's be serious now! It's obvious to me that y'all are missing the 800 lb. gorrilla in the corner! If you mixed up a 2-part urethane compound and poured it into a mold made from the steel crankshaft, the super-light, flexible properties of a urethane crank would eliminate the need for a cush drive altogether, lower the mass of the drivetrain, and reduce harmonic vibrations all at the same time. It could be marketed as the Guzzi Linguini Crank. Probably sell 'em by the truckload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan M Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Leave us not be so silly, Gents! Let's be serious now! It's obvious to me that y'all are missing the 800 lb. gorrilla in the corner! If you mixed up a 2-part urethane compound and poured it into a mold made from the steel crankshaft, the super-light, flexible properties of a urethane crank would eliminate the need for a cush drive altogether, lower the mass of the drivetrain, and reduce harmonic vibrations all at the same time. It could be marketed as the Guzzi Linguini Crank. Probably sell 'em by the truckload. Outstanding idea! Although... with its inherent twisitng properties I believe a more accurate name should be the "Guzzi Fusilli Crank" Preproduction deposits will insure early delivery. Perhaps Pete wants to get in on it and we can offer a package deal for a complete kit including the sloppage sheet, gaskets, oil, filter and a Seattle filter locker, er, hose clamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I'd also like to offer super-light-weight wheels hand tooled from Balsa-Wood. These would be incredibly light reducing unsprung mass significantly, especially if filled with helium! Sharpen up the steering too! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 ... with its inherent twisitng properties I believe a more accurate name should be the "Guzzi Fusilli Crank" Innovative! Hmmmm. Must take this up with Sales & Marketing. Would your average Guzzista with his dashing self-image and immense ego prefer to be known as: "The guy with the Linguini Crank" or "The guy with the Fusilli Crank" ?? ?? Enquiring minds (well, you know). . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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