luhbo Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 ... An aluminum mold is cheap and easy to make, no reason we can't produce the right stuff. The right stuff is built in. It comes in perfect condition right from the factory. It makes absolutely no sense to get any angular displacements into this place. This rubber blocks shall take the brittleness out of the rear end of the drive train, not more. Keep the revs above 3000, use a heavy flywheel, pull the clutch only when you really need it, and you're most friendly to all your splines. Or go and buy another bike, a high reving 4, or even better one of the new upcoming electro bikes. They are spline friendly. Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzijack Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Oh boy, been away for three weeks including taking the slow train across Canada and came back to find this 'interesting' thread still running I started to scroll the pages in reverse order but gave up after my eyes started bleeding so......... did anyone discover if Dave has actually stripped and lubed his own cush drive yet? GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Oh boy, been away for three weeks including taking the slow train across Canada and came back to find this 'interesting' thread still running The Algoma Central and Hudson Bay Railway? Outstanding way to go, ain' it? Fond memories. . . but I digress. . . ......... did anyone discover if Dave has actually stripped and lubed his own cush drive yet? Jack, I'm not gonna tell. May I suggest you can't fathom the full depth of the hysterical-grade, gobsmacking illogic of this without reading (nearly) every precious post -- wherein lies the absolutely astounding answer to your Q. It's one more proof that truth is stranger than fiction. No one could possibly make this stuff up. You've just gotta read it yourself. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Oh boy, been away for three weeks including taking the slow train across Canada and came back to find this 'interesting' thread still running I started scroll the pages in reverse order but gave up after my eyes started bleeding so......... did anyone discover if Dave has actually stripped and lubed his own cush drive yet? GJ I know you think I should do it before my next tire change, but I really am not in a hurry. So, sit back and sip a cold one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 The right stuff is built in. It comes in perfect condition right from the factory. It makes absolutely no sense to get any angular displacements into this place. This rubber blocks shall take the brittleness out of the rear end of the drive train, not more. Keep the revs above 3000, use a heavy flywheel, pull the clutch only when you really need it, and you're most friendly to all your splines. Or go and buy another bike, a high reving 4, or even better one of the new upcoming electro bikes. They are spline friendly. Hubert What dreadful recommendations <_> Keep the revs above 3000? Mine puts along fine between 2500 and 3000. Maybe It'll hurt the engine, but I doubt it as it is not straining. Use a heavy flywheel? You must be joking, or would you care to explain how taking the bike apart and installing a heavier flywheel is a more viable solution? Maybe for the Scura owners out there. Pull the clutch only when you really need it? How does that cause a problem? Clutchless shifts beat the splines much more than clutched shifts, despite what the proponents of clutchless shifts will tell you. Go buy another bike? This phrase has been iterated so many times on this forum by those who refuse to improve this bike. What would be the logic of buying a high revving four when I like to cruise below 3000 RPM. If anything I should get a Buell or a BMW with a broader torque band, but I think they too require cush drives. The Buell probably has too much vibration and a LOUSY gear box and the BMW the wrong vibrational rhythm. Maybe if Honda brought back the V Twin like the CX500 but made it a torquey 100RWHP multivalve CX1500, and built it so it wasn't in the land fill after 50,000 miles. The Guzzi is a marvelous product of EVOLUTION. If some pre-darwinians want to keep it in the 20th century, go ahead. No body is forcing you to improve it. As for me, I welcome every reasonable opportunity to improve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 What dreadful recommendations DREADFUL?? More dreadful than allowing your cush drive to rust up solid, Dave?! How much more damage to drive splines d'you reckon a RUSTED SOLID drive does than the stock setup does with a properly lubed drive collar? How much more than one with drilled rubber blocks? How much more on YOUR Guzzi, Dave?! Keep the revs above 3000? Mine puts along fine between 2500 and 3000. Maybe It'll hurt the engine, but I doubt it as it is not straining. Use a heavy flywheel? You must be joking, or would you care to explain how taking the bike apart and installing a heavier flywheel is a more viable solution? Maybe for the Scura owners out there. Pull the clutch only when you really need it? How does that cause a problem? Clutchless shifts beat the splines much more than clutched shifts, despite what the proponents of clutchless shifts will tell you. OMG, NO. . . Will someone else kindly do the honors here for a change? [. . . sigh . . .] It's a thankless job -- but as Perry White at The Daily Planet would've said, Great Ceasar's Ghost! -- Somebody's just gotta do it!!!! Where's Pete lately? Nevermind, he's already covered this recently: One place where spline wear does very often occur is withing the clutch/flywheel assembley. With a twin plate unit when you engage the clutch, (Pull in the lever.) it de-compresses the friction and intermediate plates. The friction plates are splined to the input hub of the gearbox, the intermediate plate is splined into the flywheel. As the flywheel accelerates and decellerates between power strokes the plates will thrash bavk and forth on their splines and this will eventually cause *stepping* and wear on the splines leading to poor engagement and disengagement of the clutch and in extreme cases 'Creep' when the clutch is engaged at a standstill. This thrashing is only really a problem at low engine speeds and is due to the 270/430 degree firing order of the V twin motor. For this reason it is unwise to set your idle speed low, (Guzzi recommend 1200RPM for a reason.) and likewise it is not good for the clutch componentry to sit at idle with the clutch pulled in. My "Whack-a-Mole!" hammer is worn out, and those beady-eyed little havoc wreakers just keep on pokin' up. They're freakin' relentless. . . . Carl Spackler: License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations. Man, free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case my enemy is a varmint. And a varmint will never quit - ever. They're like the Viet Cong - Varmint Cong. So you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower. And that's all she wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzijack Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I know you think I should do it before my next tire change, but I really am not in a hurry. So, sit back and sip a cold one. Never need an excuse to hit the beer chiller in the workshop Although I'm genuinely surprised that you haven't at least taken the opportunity to inspect the drive on your own bike given that it's maybe 6 years old and almost certainly seized solid if Luigi did the usual mandello rationing job with the grease pot. IMHO if I were faced with the same situation I'd get in there soonest to at least ensure the thing was working as it is designed to do before promulgating somewhat bizarre and whacko 'solutions' to a non-existant problem. At least I could be sure my sig line wouldn't stand a chance of reading Silver Y2K V11S Mistral carbons, BMC filter, ElectroSport regulator, GEI relays ?, Odyssey battery, Corbin saddle, ConvertiBARS, Pro Grip 737, Ohlins forks from Cafe Sport, Penske shock, Pazzo levers, Napoleon mirrors, Brembo 7850 Calipers, Galfer brake lines, PCIII serial, TuneBoy AND locked solid rear drive with associated mangled driveshaft splines and screwed UJ! GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 With profound apologies and A big, Lone Star State “Hey, y’all!” to Frank Beard, Dusty Hill, and Billy Gibbons Cush I've been up, I've been down Take my word been around I ain't askin' for much I said Lord take me downtown I'm just looking for some cush I've been bad, I've been good Dallas Texas, Hollywood I ain't askin' for much I said Lord take me downtown I'm just looking for some cush Take me back way back home not by myself not alone I ain't askin' for much I said Lord take me downtown I'm just looking for some cush I ain't askin' for much I said Lord take me downtown I'm just looking for some cush I ain't askin' for much I said Lord take me downtown I'm just looking for some cush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 All that waterproof grease, silicone grease and moly sure must make the mechanism work well, but it also spits plenty of goop on the wheel. I had to assure some fellow riders that a Guzzi with no grease on the wheel is a Guzzi with no grease . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 snip... At least I could be sure my sig line wouldn't stand a chance of reading Silver Y2K V11S Mistral carbons, BMC filter, ElectroSport regulator, GEI relays ?, Odyssey battery, Corbin saddle, ConvertiBARS, Pro Grip 737, Ohlins forks from Cafe Sport, Penske shock, Pazzo levers, Napoleon mirrors, Brembo 7850 Calipers, Galfer brake lines, PCIII serial, TuneBoy AND locked solid rear drive with associated mangled driveshaft splines and screwed UJ! GJ How about CRASHED Silver Y2K V11S, due to lowside due to grease on rear wheel from following recommendations of forum members. The following parts are now on eBay Mistral carbons, BMC filter, ElectroSport regulator, GEI relays ?, Odyssey battery, Corbin saddle, ConvertiBARS, Pro Grip 737, Ohlins forks from Cafe Sport, Penske shock, Pazzo levers, Napoleon mirrors, Brembo 7850 Calipers, Galfer brake lines, PCIII serial, TuneBoy BTW my splines look marvelous. I wish I could say I could detect cush just by riding. It feels cushy, but it may be only wishful thinking. I find it difficult to believe the forces are so great they can damage the spines yet are so weak they can't break the lock of little oxidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 It should make sense to grease the cush, then ride a hundred or so miles. After that take the back wheel off, wipe it down including all the grease around the edges of the cush drive cover. This should mean that the grease thats still in the cush is the "appropriate" amount. Maybe we shoud have another 100 posts trying to measure the exact amount of grease that should go in without making a mess while riding. Someone could even design a sealed cush grease chamber & sell it to all of us who would like one Or how about a patented cush drive grease catcher? The global warming greenies would love that one I think Moto Guzzi already designed a cush drive that needed no grease at all but we cant leave that alone now can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I think Moto Guzzi already designed a cush drive that needed no grease at all but we cant leave that alone now can we? Evidently not, Richard. Leaving it alone is NOT a good idea, and will COST YOU DEARLY, eventually. As Greg said in his opening post, "The V11 Sport's cush drive is almost identical to the cush drives on the other Guzzis. It works OK when it is properly lubed but quickly siezes up from rust if neglected." Greg's "neglect this at your own risk" theme here has also been echoed in many threads before this one, and again in discussion here several times by GuzziJack and myself. Also from Greg's opening post, take a look at his photo #2, copied here: If you look very closely, you will see what looks like a dark, curving shadow on the inside bearing face of the cush drive plate hub. As mentioned by Yours Truly 2 years ago when I posted about my own cush drive service a year prior, and again by Greg in the "caption" for this photo, this is a helical (or spiral if you will) groove, obviously put there with the intent to carry grease. As on most Guzzi cush drives I've ever disassembled, this one was all rusty and on the verge of siezing up. In the i.d. of the center hole is a spiral groove that's supposed to hold grease to keep it all lubed. Instead, it was packed with rust and was fretting away at the mating flange on the wheel. Again, after just over 2 years in service. The picture shows it after I'd cleaned off the rust. Again, as mentioned many many times by me (and others) in many previous posts, this steel-on-steel reciprocating rotation bearing joint comes DRY from Mandello. THIS is the location where rust will eventually cause the cush drive to seize. If allowed to remain seized, over time, it will continue to rust in place, and can become next to impossible -- if not truly impossible -- to take apart. The significance of this is that while it's allowed to remain seized, the cush drive doesn't function AT ALL. As a result, the clutch hub drive splines and the rest of the driveline (all very very expensive items, BTW) are being hammered into unserviceable scrap condition on the hyper-accelerated plan. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Or how about a patented cush drive grease catcher? Er, I use a 'rag.' Is that too Luddite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Er, I use a 'rag.' Is that too Luddite? If you won't get with the 21st century, why not at least get with the 20th century and use Maxi-Pads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I suppose I could switch to a microfiber rag without offending my sensibilities . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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