roper plate revisited

[profWacko]

dlaing mentionsed: optional brass fitting

 

Where do you get one of these?

 

-Jack

[Guest ratchethack]

Jack, it's Guzzi PN 30163301, $29.95, your favorite Guzzi parts source should be able to order it -- if not even have one in stock.

[pete roper]

dlaing mentionsed: optional brass fitting

 

Where do you get one of these?

 

-Jack

 

Moto International heve 'em I know. Otherwise you could try a pipe fitting shop Honestly, I reckon that it shouldn't be too hard to find sitable fittings.

 

Pete

[dlaing]

The original plastic ones can break from just a foot pound of torque.

The brass ones won't.

I am not sure but it probably is the part used in the V1100 fuel injected bikes before the 1999 V11 was produced.

Your local Guzzi dealer might have it in stock(as Ratchet said), if not, MPH, MotoInternational (as Pete said), MGCycle, and Harpers are all good bets.

[Skeeve]

Measurement from bottom of block, dipstick seated

The high mark on the dipstick is 2 cm below the Roper plate.

The low mark is 4 cm below the Roper plate.

 

Ratch, where do I get a nifty alloy dipstick like yours? Mine's just a visually indistinct black plastic cruciform rod...

[Guest ratchethack]

Ratch, where do I get a nifty alloy dipstick like yours? Mine's just a visually indistinct black plastic cruciform rod...

Dunno, Skeeve. It was one of a few nifty billet items that the PO had installed, along with clutch/brake reservoir caps and stock muffler pillion footrests, all finished to "natural" matte anodized. The dipstick was (nearly) as impossible to read as the black plastic ones before I flat-sided it and put a row of "dimples" on it with a Dremel.

[BrianG]

A temp sensor measures how hot the luvin' is

But seriously, on the right cylinder head there is a sensor screwed into a fragile plastic adapter which is screwed into the cylinder head.

There is no metal to metal contact between cylinder head and sensor, and the ECU is known to respond slowly to the engine's warming up, so people have theorized that you should put conductive goo into where you screw the sensor to conduct the heat to the sensor, providing the ECU with a higher temperature reading. For some reason, what goo you use is a contentious issue. I have used silver conductive grease, but it was poopoo'd, for lack of conductivity, so don't you dare use it!!!

An alternative solution is to buy mapping software and tweak the temperature compensation map.

But that is more expensive than a little goo, and you might end up selling your pciii on ebay, so don't let that happen.

 

Is there any chance that the MG engineers actually designed the head-temp sensor system purposefully and contemplated the data delivery in the context of the sensor mounting method?

 

I don't want to attribute any more intelligence to the design engineers than is appripriate, but really.........

[Skeeve]

Is there any chance that the MG engineers actually designed the head-temp sensor system purposefully and contemplated the data delivery in the context of the sensor mounting method?

 

I don't want to attribute any more intelligence to the design engineers than is appripriate, but really.........

 

The change from brass sensor holder to plastic mid-production was a very strong tell-tale that it was Aprilia's bean-counters influencing production decisions, not the engineers.

 

Don't you read Dilbert? It's not a comic strip, it's a documentary on the life of a corporate engineer. Scott Adams used to work for Pac Bell. Just like in the strip, the company accountants are demons from Heck.

[BrianG]

The change from brass sensor holder to plastic mid-production was a very strong tell-tale that it was Aprilia's bean-counters influencing production decisions, not the engineers.

 

Don't you read Dilbert? It's not a comic strip, it's a documentary on the life of a corporate engineer. Scott Adams used to work for Pac Bell. Just like in the strip, the company accountants are demons from Heck.

 

Yes indeed, your observation of a mid-production change is strong evidence of bean-counter interference.... did you notice the characteristic smell?

 

No, I don't read Dilbert, dealing with patients daily is humorous enough.......

[dlaing]

Is there any chance that the MG engineers actually designed the head-temp sensor system purposefully and contemplated the data delivery in the context of the sensor mounting method?

 

I don't want to attribute any more intelligence to the design engineers than is appripriate, but really.........

That is what I thought, but I was told in another thread that it must be the bean counters.

I find it hard to believe the single piece brass fitting costs more than the three part brass and plastic piece. But if they got a deal from a Fiat supplier, that could explain it.

I was concerned that the sensor could only endure so much cylinder head temperature, but I was assured that it is not a problem.

But why did they put cooling fins on the brass piece?

Or why doesn't the sensor plug directly into the head?

[mark.gilmore]

Pete, got my new sheet yesterday,very nice indeed.Thank u hairy crotch.

[BrianG]

That is what I thought, but I was told in another thread that it must be the bean counters.

I find it hard to believe the single piece brass fitting costs more than the three part brass and plastic piece. But if they got a deal from a Fiat supplier, that could explain it.

I was concerned that the sensor could only endure so much cylinder head temperature, but I was assured that it is not a problem.

But why did they put cooling fins on the brass piece?

Or why doesn't the sensor plug directly into the head?

It does suggest that some piece of this puzzle may still be missing.....

[Skeeve]

...I find it hard to believe the single piece brass fitting costs more than the three part brass and plastic piece. But if they got a deal from a Fiat supplier, that could explain it.... But why did they put cooling fins on the brass piece?

Or why doesn't the sensor plug directly into the head?

 

1) Brass is sold by wt.; the chunk of brass bar stock that the screw machine cuts & threads into the piece is probably about 2x as heavy as the actual fitting. And that single piece fitting has what, 4x? 5x? the brass content of the (mostly plastic) inadequate bean-counter replacement? Of course it costs more...

 

2) They put cooling fins because it looks "trick" or "cool." How about "racy?" Purely cosmetic, I'm sure. Or maybe they figured it's an air-cooled engine, so why not make use of any additional surface available to dump heat? Your guess is as good as mine, Dave!

 

3) The sensor doesn't plug directly into the head because that's the way they decided to build it! It may have been some abstruse consideration of "the sensor only comes w/ this fine thread, but we can have a lower defect rate if we use this larger, coarser thread in the head." Or maybe it was a case of "we've designed the head for this sensor, which is now no longer available. Rather than changing our casting/machining process for the head, which we think we've finally got sorted out, lets just use an adapter to fit this other sensor." But you're right, they could have made it so the sensor just plugged right in, but they went with another method. Que sera sera!

[dlaing]

1) Brass is sold by wt.; the chunk of brass bar stock that the screw machine cuts & threads into the piece is probably about 2x as heavy as the actual fitting. And that single piece fitting has what, 4x? 5x? the brass content of the (mostly plastic) inadequate bean-counter replacement? Of course it costs more...

It's weight is equivalent to that of $1 plumbing part.

I paid $40 plus shipping for the brass one.

I wonder how much the plastic and brass on is?

I ordered a plastic and brass one about two or three years ago and it has not arrived.

Must be the bean counters lost count.

[Ryland3210]

1) Brass is sold by wt.; the chunk of brass bar stock that the screw machine cuts & threads into the piece is probably about 2x as heavy as the actual fitting. And that single piece fitting has what, 4x? 5x? the brass content of the (mostly plastic) inadequate bean-counter replacement? Of course it costs more...

 

2) They put cooling fins because it looks "trick" or "cool." How about "racy?" Purely cosmetic, I'm sure. Or maybe they figured it's an air-cooled engine, so why not make use of any additional surface available to dump heat? Your guess is as good as mine, Dave!

 

3) The sensor doesn't plug directly into the head because that's the way they decided to build it! It may have been some abstruse consideration of "the sensor only comes w/ this fine thread, but we can have a lower defect rate if we use this larger, coarser thread in the head." Or maybe it was a case of "we've designed the head for this sensor, which is now no longer available. Rather than changing our casting/machining process for the head, which we think we've finally got sorted out, lets just use an adapter to fit this other sensor." But you're right, they could have made it so the sensor just plugged right in, but they went with another method. Que sera sera!

 

I thought the same thing about the cooling fins. They made no logical sense to me. I wrapped aluminum duct sealing tape around them to deliberately reduce the ambient cooling effect and filled the well with high copper content anti sieze to have the sensor read more accurately.