Skeeve Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 After lurking for a few months before joining , reading about members being on probation , I can't say that I am surprised at a couple comments thats been made here . I guess I dare not enter the engine ping topic to tell of my experience with the LeMans engine ping at 5k RPM along with how I tricked the ECU for the fix . Being a new guy here and being just a troll and all I don't suppose any help is needed . Strike the word needed and replace with wanted What I can say is that the work hardening terminolgogy used in metalurgy is also used in the elastomer industry and that not one word from me was ever written about a harder replacement part to replace only the same-same . ... So , it seems *fact there is simply no interest in a modern eurethane type shell injected with another and newer type polymer with the synergistic effect being the outer layer is impervious to heat and chemicals and road elements while the inner mareral having ability to absorb shock better than a brick . Never the mind the adage of if it's not the boss's idea , it's not a good one . I will continue and have a one off set made soon . $30.00 USD will be the cost to me. The majority has spoke and even DELETED so thats it from me on this topic . A topic I now regret even making as it brought out the side of name calling people that only hurts the good guys in the end . I should have just made the parts and went on with it like I've done much of my life because pointlessly arguing on the internet with a person calling me a TROLL is not something I will lower myself to . Ah, don't go getting yer panties in a twist! New guys are always subject to a little hazing, you know how it is... Definitely please weigh in on the pinging topic: this is an area where everyone's experience is different, & hence worth hearing. While some would not be interested in a modern urethane alternative to the stock buna-n Guzzi rubber, there are others one the board who would find these of interest, as witness the otherwise-impossible 19pg thread from last year would never have come into being! Is it worth $30 to me? Not right now, I'm sorry to day. I'm not even going to pony up $8 for one of Ryland's improved relays, mostly due to the shipping cost making them even less attractive to someone who already has a complete set of GEIs. But please proceed w/ development, & let us all know how you make out. Get the price down to $12 [ie, $2/wedge] and I'm sure you'll find a bunch of takers, even among the previously "why bother?" camp. Ride on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Ah, don't go getting yer panties in a twist! New guys are always subject to a little hazing, you know how it is... Definitely please weigh in on the pinging topic: this is an area where everyone's experience is different, & hence worth hearing. While some would not be interested in a modern urethane alternative to the stock buna-n Guzzi rubber, there are others one the board who would find these of interest, as witness the otherwise-impossible 19pg thread from last year would never have come into being! Is it worth $30 to me? Not right now, I'm sorry to day. I'm not even going to pony up $8 for one of Ryland's improved relays, mostly due to the shipping cost making them even less attractive to someone who already has a complete set of GEIs. But please proceed w/ development, & let us all know how you make out. Get the price down to $12 [ie, $2/wedge] and I'm sure you'll find a bunch of takers, even among the previously "why bother?" camp. Ride on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Ah, don't go getting yer panties in a twist! New guys are always subject to a little hazing, you know how it is... Definitely please weigh in on the pinging topic: this is an area where everyone's experience is different, & hence worth hearing. While some would not be interested in a modern urethane alternative to the stock buna-n Guzzi rubber, there are others one the board who would find these of interest, as witness the otherwise-impossible 19pg thread from last year would never have come into being! Is it worth $30 to me? Not right now, I'm sorry to day. I'm not even going to pony up $8 for one of Ryland's improved relays, mostly due to the shipping cost making them even less attractive to someone who already has a complete set of GEIs. But please proceed w/ development, & let us all know how you make out. Get the price down to $12 [ie, $2/wedge] and I'm sure you'll find a bunch of takers, even among the previously "why bother?" camp. Ride on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Ah, don't go getting yer panties in a twist! New guys are always subject to a little hazing, you know how it is... Definitely please weigh in on the pinging topic: this is an area where everyone's experience is different, & hence worth hearing. While some would not be interested in a modern urethane alternative to the stock buna-n Guzzi rubber, there are others one the board who would find these of interest, as witness the otherwise-impossible 19pg thread from last year would never have come into being! Is it worth $30 to me? Not right now, I'm sorry to day. I'm not even going to pony up $8 for one of Ryland's improved relays, mostly due to the shipping cost making them even less attractive to someone who already has a complete set of GEIs. But please proceed w/ development, & let us all know how you make out. Get the price down to $12 [ie, $2/wedge] and I'm sure you'll find a bunch of takers, even among the previously "why bother?" camp. Ride on! Gosh, Skeeve, $5 for shipping cost on a set of relays costing $40 for a set of five, didn't seem excessive to me, at a buck apiece. Let's see, the trip to the post office today for a shipment cost me $3 in gas, plus $1.29 for a mailer, plus $2.49 for postage, so I'm losing $1.78 on the shipping cost, and the margin on a relay is less than that. That's not counting the 45 minutes of time to pack them, address the box and make the round trip to the post office, let alone the many days researching and testing. I'm actually embarrassed to be speaking of numbers in the range of a cup of coffee these days, but I thought your comments warranted a response. By the way, I sought and received Dan P's blessing before offering these alternatives. That was important to me, knowing from experience how difficult it is to recover any investment in developing aftermarket products in this tiny market. At the prices for the wedges you are suggesting, my guess is the more our friend sells, the more money he will lose. If he is willing to put his time and experience to work and offers a set of wedges even for $50, I'm glad to pay that much, plus whatever his actual shipping cost might be. That's cheap at the price, and less than three tanks of gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Get the price down to $12 [ie, $2/wedge] and I'm sure you'll find a bunch of takers, even among the previously "why bother?" camp. Why not make them free? Isn't that part of the hazing ritual? FWIW, MGCycle advertises a set of chrome-alloy steel hard rubbers for $29.95++ I wonder if they have been sitting, petrifying, in a warehouse since the glory days of the V7Sport? Knowing the difference between MGCycle's price and Guzzi MSRP, they probably retail for about $57.23US. But I think you make a valid point that the "why bother" camp could be swayed if the price is low enough. Maybe you should produce the rubbers since you think you can get the price that low???? The check is in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Gosh, Skeeve, $5 for shipping cost on a set of relays costing $40 for a set of five, didn't seem excessive to me, at a buck apiece. Not saying you're gouging, Ryland! Just that given I'd already ponied up for a complete set of the GEI relays, I only need 1 of yours. Yes, yours are better. Just not *enough* better for me to shell out the dosh for them right now. I don't want to bore you w/ my tiresome tale of financial ruin. Let's just say my gf just got a new job after almost 2 years of my providing more than 50% of her support, and I gross below the median income for So. Cal. So there's light at the end of the tunnel. But it's very likely too late to prevent me from having to declare bankruptcy this year. Que sera sera! As far as my unrealistic price for the "new & imp'd" urethane wedges: yes, I know that there's no chance of making that price. That's my point! Until the price point gets that low, it's going to be mighty hard to compete against the "drill & reinstall" routine on the stock wedges. But if he can get it close to that price point, then he'll have even the naysayers getting in line to say "Well done, & where is my set?!?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Until the price point gets that low, it's going to be mighty hard to compete against the "drill & reinstall" routine on the stock wedges. But if he can get it close to that price point, then he'll have even the naysayers getting in line to say "Well done, & where is my set?!?" Say Skeeve! Regardless of price, now. Please help an ol' Forum Curmudgeon out, here. How's about the concept (simple, really!) of actually identifying what all those who say that urethane is "obviously better" than rubber mean by this when compared to drilled stock blocks?! QUESTION: How do you compete ON PRICE against ZERO COST of something that has worked as well as anyone can imagine something to work for decades, and actually get ORDERS from people -- for something that's not only untested, but non-existent in actual application -- before a price has even been established?! ANSWER: By letting the concept of "obviously better" (at any cost!) pre-fabricate itself in fantasy from scratch! Why, all it takes is mutual encouragement of imaginary expectations! It's simply astounding! It's spontaneous generation!! It's more vaporous than vaporware!!! No salesmanship, no evidence, no validation, (proof, you might reasonably ask?!?! Harf, Harf!) -- let alone such customary real-world requisites for initial orders as prototyping, proof of concept, field testing (either short or long-term), and objective competitive/comparitive analysis necessary! It could be better, it should be better, I WANT IT TO BE better. . . therefore, IT IS BETTER! P. T. Barnum LIVES! If I ever see any credible evidence of "better" here, worthy of any expense -- anything at all reasonably justifiable based on something other than fantasy and incredibly wishful thinking! -- after credible field testing and legitimate comparative analysis, I'll be the next to place my order. But until then, if this ain't one lemming lining up to follow the next one under the sign, "This way to the egress!", can you tell me wot so many seem to've got their dorks wrapped around the ol' driveshaft about?!?! I ain't got the foggiest!!! Skeeve? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianG Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I hope summer get here quick..... the cabin fever seems to be more likely fatal this year than in previous seaasons.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 P. T. Barnum LIVES! Yes, his spirit lives, and spins a mean drill bit, making swiss cheese out of chrome-alloy hard pucks, selling it to the lined up suckers born every day. He's been doing it for years! PROOF that it works!!!!! LOL!!!! Sometimes he even advocates chucking out half the pucks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil A Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 QUESTION: How do you compete ON PRICE against ZERO COST of something that has worked as well as anyone can imagine something to work for decades, and actually get ORDERS from people -- for something that's not only untested, but non-existent in actual application -- before a price has even been established?! This place must be the best value for no money entertainment on the net. Why would ya go to a circus when you can come here for freee he he he :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Not saying you're gouging, Ryland! Just that given I'd already ponied up for a complete set of the GEI relays, I only need 1 of yours. Yes, yours are better. Just not *enough* better for me to shell out the dosh for them right now. I don't want to bore you w/ my tiresome tale of financial ruin. Let's just say my gf just got a new job after almost 2 years of my providing more than 50% of her support, and I gross below the median income for So. Cal. So there's light at the end of the tunnel. But it's very likely too late to prevent me from having to declare bankruptcy this year. Que sera sera! As far as my unrealistic price for the "new & imp'd" urethane wedges: yes, I know that there's no chance of making that price. That's my point! Until the price point gets that low, it's going to be mighty hard to compete against the "drill & reinstall" routine on the stock wedges. But if he can get it close to that price point, then he'll have even the naysayers getting in line to say "Well done, & where is my set?!?" Thanks for explaining. Man, hat's a tough position to be in. Avoid bankruptcy if you possibly can, and work it out with the creditors if at all possible. Bankruptcy is the kind of thing can follow you around and close off options for a long, long, time. Your point is well taken on the need for the price to be pretty darned low to attract the buyers participating in this thread and related threads. I believe you're right about that. I was sympathizing with the cost of the efforts required to make the dual material wedges. My recollection is that comments had been made in the cush drive thread to the effect that reducing shocks in the drive train made for a smoother ride and less wear of the splines. The drilling procedure has worked well for others, but I value my time unless I'm doing something new and different, or solving an interesting problem, in which case I don't count it. That's why I was willing to pay a good price if a set of wedges would do the same thing. I just know it would take me at least 2-3 hours to modify the original wedges, if not more. In addition, I could keep the original wedges intact if it didn't work out, or as future spares. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Additionally, drilling holes in the stock wedges is a band-aid fix(not saying it doesn't work, just that it's not my idea of a proper fix. it's making something that was not well engineered to begin with work acceptably well by modifying it with your best guess for a bunch of holes.) I would hope that a replacement set of wedges would work even better(ie. smoother, longer,quieter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeve Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Additionally, drilling holes in the stock wedges is a band-aid fix(not saying it doesn't work, just that it's not my idea of a proper fix. it's making something that was not well engineered to begin with work acceptably well by modifying it with your best guess for a bunch of holes.) Wait... you mean... it's a bodge!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard100t Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 This really is a fascinating subject for me. I greased the pucks last year & there was an actual "very slight" improvement in the ride. Now I must admit that I havent gone to the trouble to drill the pucks out, mostly because I'd want a spare set in case I wasnt happy with the results of the drilling. The procedure is so simple & relatively easy that I'm finding it hard to believe how many posts we can get out of the subject between this thread & the old thread. Could it be that these newfangled urethane pucks are going to turn my v11 into an Italian Goldwing! Just how much more room is there for improvement on this particular part of the motorcycle anyway? I have to be completely honest here & say that I have never, ever been riding my bike & thought "Gee those rubber pucks could use a little more grease". Arent we really just talking about a (maybe) yearly routine maintenance procedure such as greasing that damn front u joint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Well, the return of this subject finally got me off my lazy ass and in the garage to drill my pucks. I found the situation inside my bike was really strange. Things started to get scary when all the button head screws were properly tightened and came out with no heat or damage to the screw heads. Then I opened things up and found almost no rust and everything in pretty good condition for a bike that has been on the road for five years. Once I got over the shock (Guido actually greased everything and torque the screws correctly ) I cleaned things up, drilled the pucks, greased things and put it back together. I can't say it was night and day but the drive system is noticeably smoother. The bike is more pleasant to ride and it has to be easier on the U-joints and spines. Maybe another material would be even better, I can't say since I lack Ratchethack's physic engineering ability, but the drilled pucks are better then stock. I used a normal twist bits so my work doesn't look quite as spiffy as Greg's but it is pretty close. Greg didn't give a speed but I used 700 RPM, the slowest setting on my press, and it worked well. I found it easiest to just hold the puck in my hands while I drilled it. If something better comes along I'll look at it again but for now I'd call it and hour or so well spent. Make that two hours if you include the time to clean up the big pile of rubber drilled out of the pucks. I would recommend anybody who hasn't done so to read Greg's post and follow his directions. Lex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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