No start/Just a click. PICS

[wheelsucker]

Good news and bad news (kind of).

 

So I bought a volt meter and my OEM battery measures 12.75v, I've got a line on one of the odyssey's though that I can possibly pick up tomorrow. I read in another thread where someone had said that our starter is also in some Fiat's. It turns out that the 1976 Fiat spider is one of them, so Pep boys tested it and.....the starter whirred like it was new!! So I'm going to clean the starter as suggested by mznyc, and all the connections, so it looks like the Guzzi may be on soon. I'll let everyone know the diagnosis for future problems.

[GuzziMoto]

Who in Maryland stocks the odyssey batteries?

[wheelsucker]

I went to the odyssey web site and all the battery wharehouse stores in Md carry them. I had to call around to quite a few before a couple of stores could get them, non had them stocked. I'm picking mine up tomorrow from the store in Glen Burnie. The store in Rockville said they could get one by Monday and there was one other store that said they could get one, but I'm don't remember which store. I'd say the Glen Burnie or Rockville store are the best bets.

 

The bad news is that I got the starter to half start twice about 5 mins apart after I cleaned the starter, so I'm not sure if its the battery or the relays.

 

Does anyone know where I might be able to buy some relays locally? Would the BMW shop possibly have some if the Guzzi shop doesn't?

[wheelsucker]

Odyssey battery is in, and still not starting. Possibly the relay has gone bad but has anyone ever had issues with grounding the starter? I'm wondering if that is the problem?

 

If I wanted to take the gas tank off to check all wires, is it simply a matter of undoing the two hoses on the drive side(throttle side) and the two hoses underneath? I don't believe any gas will come out correct?

[fotoguzzi]

theres nothing special about the relays other than they are 4 or 5 pin type.. take it out and bring it to an auto parts store and match one up. thats what I tihnk anyhow.. or order a set for about 20 bucks from Pyro Dan at dpguzzi.com

[fotoguzzi]

it's not your kill switch is it?

[raz]

Here are some simple tests without diving into the harness:

1. Check voltage at battery with a) ignition off, ignition and headlight on, and c) during cranking.
   
2. Check voltage at starter during cranking. Both meter probes near starter (eg. at the copper nut and at one of the starter mounting bolts)
   
3. Check voltage between battery positive terminal and starter positive (copper nut) during cranking. We are now measuring voltage DROP so it better be low.
   
4. Check voltage drop between battery negative terminal and starter mounting bolt when cranking.
   

When my bike refused to crank, the tests 1a and 1b showed good voltages, but at 1c it went from 12.7 V to some 4 V (!) so I needed not look further. Must have been a broken terminal inside the battery, from over torquing. Do not over torque a Hawker (or Spark) battery! The normal M6 torque figures are way to high for this one.

 

If #1 looks sane, try #2. If that shows a significantly lower voltage than 1c, we have a voltage drop somewhere, proceed to 3 & 4 to narrow it down.

 

3 & 4 has been on my to-do list for long but I don't have much of a problem (just a little hesitation, never fails) so I don't know what normal figures will look like. But for starters (pun intended), if one of them shows a significantly higher voltage drop than the other, you know where to look.

[mznyc]

Hi Raz,

When doing these tests I assume PROBE polarity doesn't matter?What do you use for testing gauge thickness?I would assume that my puny Radio Shack alligator clips with thin gauge wire would fry if I used em on the starter.I like using clips on the ends of the probes to the part being tested so I can put the DMM on seat or tankbag so I can see it while doing tests alone and still having hands free to start bike,etc.

Thanks,Michael

PS My starter has been good since cleaning out solenoid,but waiting for other shoe to drop,......

[Bbennett]

First things first, your voltage on the battery is way below what it takes to start this bike. I think you need something like 11.5V. And one false start will draw many volts. Put the bike on a trickle charge and you will likely be fine.

 

Make sure the kickstand is up! And the kill swtch is noty active.....(sorry to mention).

 

I think your REAL issue is why did the batter get so low. This is why someone mentioned the Oddyssey battery - it will hold a charge better than the stock lump. But the problem could be deeper - let's not go there now. First things first!

 

By the way, there is nothing wrong with bump starting your bike....I did it for months at one point (long story).

 

Bob

 

edit: I originally said "jump" starting but meant "bump" starting is OK

[mznyc]

Bob are you talking about bump starting or jump starting?Iv'e read a few stories ,here,about people doing damage jump starting a bike.With a float charger it would be difficult damaging a good battery,even by ME!

[raz]

When doing these tests I assume PROBE polarity doesn't matter?What do you use for testing gauge thickness?I would assume that my puny Radio Shack alligator clips with thin gauge wire would fry if I used em on the starter.I like using clips on the ends of the probes to the part being tested so I can put the DMM on seat or tankbag so I can see it while doing tests alone and still having hands free to start bike,etc.

Nowadays most multimeters are digital so probe polarity doesn't matter - you'll just get a minus sign before the figures if connected "wrong". And of course there is no need to correct that, just disregard the sign.

 

For voltage tests, you do not need heavy wires. The current passing the multimeter is really really tiny when measuring voltage. Nothing will every fry as long as you don't try to measure current (amperes) going through the starter. That would be an adventure...

 

OTOH, since the starter is unfused (it has to be) you should be very careful not to accidently short the positive wire to ground with the probe. That could very well weld a hole in your gearbox.

 

First things first, your voltage on the battery is way below what it takes to start this bike. I think you need something like 11.5V. And one false start will draw many volts. Put the bike on a trickle charge and you will likely be fine.

First he said 10 volts but then 12.75 volts, not sure which was correct. Anyway, it is a good point to charge fully before measuring. After that, the "1c" test above will immediately tell you if the battery is due for replacement or not.

[wheelsucker]

I put the odyssey battery in and have 12.75 volts at the battery and starter with the key off. When the key is on voltage drops to 12.05 at both points. haven't had time yet to do any of the other tests. I'm sure I have some bigger issue since pep boys can start my starter right up on their machine.

[raz]

A brand new Odyssey should definitely not drop that much just powering the headlight. Did you charge it beforehand?

[fotoguzzi]

check your ground strap at the battery and frame. if its to the frame but not bolted to the engine maybe it should be. that wire should be heavy duty.

[wheelsucker]

The guy at the shop said that the odyssey batteries don't need pre-charging like a normal battery. It is on my trickle charger but I retook the readings and the readings are 12.50 ignition off and 12.05 with ignition on at both battery and starter. I'm going to have to trace some lines to ensure that everything is proper.