Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.) Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Greetings all. Electrical gremlins turned up again. On Saturday I rode two hours in heavy rain (in past no problem to Guzzi). After small stop, Guzzi did!nt start up. Check the relays and fuses. 30A fuse was not blown but melted from heat. After few minutes Guzzi started like always and I continued home. Today morning I started the engine and checked how much volts is going to the battery. 17,1 Volt. Fine. Too much. New fuse really hot again. I assumed the voltage regulator is blown so I changed it (always one spare at home). Fine. Guzzi was charging and running fine. After few starts, 30A fuse blown as well as 15A next to it. Not charging now (supprisingly). But the biggest point! Even with key off and out from the bike, charging and oil light in the dashboard, still lights. What should be??? New voltage regulator is similar to Ducati one, not the same but with same specs. Same wires - different connectors. Connectors has been adapted and precisly wired and covered by self-melting rubber tape. Has anybody suffered this before? Will try to get another Ducati regulator Are regulators from later models (Nero, Ballabio etc) also compatible? thanks for help and hints. safe ride Slavek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasotibbs Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I'd remove the tank (remember to remove the fuel pump relay to avoid the risk of spraying fuel if you power the ign circuit ) then with the ign off disconnect the wires from the regulator until the dash lights go out (+ve,-ve ,dash light and the 2 generator wires if I remember correctly)if it doesn't have any effect then the fault may be elsewhere, it may be as simple as a short in the wiring around the headstock ? When my replacement regulator went faulty last month (30 amp fuse blowing) I discovered the regulator case was live due to an internal short , with a heat gun I was able to remove the potting compound and see a burnt area between the board and the case maybe due to water getting in ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 . . .I rode two hours in heavy rain. . . . . .Even with key off and out from the bike, charging and oil light in the dashboard, still lights. Slavek, if the ignition switch was exposed to that much rain with the key in place, with the little protective "door" slid open for the key, I would first suspect a water-induced short in the ignition switch from water running straight into the switch around the edges of the key. I would try a good ignition dryer/contact cleaner shot directly in there with the little spray tube they come with to displace the water and clean up the contacts. PLEASE, DO NOT use WD-40, since it is essentially naphtha-based Stoddard solvent with added penetrating oils that you DO NOT want left behind in there on the switch contacts. This would be asking for worse trouble. Yes, yes I know all too well that WD-40 was ORIGINALLY formulated to displace water. The basic WD-40 formula has not changed in 60 years, having been for the most part "frozen" back when the only alternative was methyl ethyl ketone, aka MEK . The whole amazing history of the company, starting from selling the stuff to Convair and the US Navy out of the trunk of Norm Larsen's car (right here in San Diego) is widely known in astounding detail here, and I have business contacts at Director level at WD-40 myself. Don't know what you may have available to you, but I have successfully used both Caig Deox-it and CRC QD Electronic Cleaner for this kind of thing. Neither of these leave any residue behind. I would follow several blasts of contact cleaner by working the keyswitch with the key a few times, and shoot it with compressed air to make sure all is out, so the contacts are left dry. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Good advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Field Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 In addition to what Ratch said, you need to replace the 30a fuse holder. Get a separate high-amp sealed fuse holder and jumper it in around the fusebox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.) Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 thanks for tips! Will jump on it tommorrow evening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Could this constant on state of warning lights on, POSSIBLY be caused by toasted diodes in regulator???? This might explain charging light, but not oil light???? Easy test is to pull the 30amp fuse. If the ignition switch (or relay, theoretically, but unlikely) is somehow stuck in a bridged on position, this could have significantly reduced your battery's state of charge, maybe not so much that you can't start, but enough that it puts a drain on the charging system. If discharged, the battery acts like a black hole, sucking every electrode it can away from your charging system!!!! The voltage regulator regulates voltage, not amperage, so when the battery is low, more amps than the wiring can handle may occur, and seems to have occurred in your situation. Also, more amps than can be handled by the voltage regulator and alternator can occur, and probably did occur, since you saw 17 Volts. You should charge your battery. If you pull the 30amp fuse and the warning lights are still on,we can assume that the voltage regulator's diodes aren't the cause of the charging warning light on, when ignition is off. Once the diodes are eliminated as the culprit, fix the ignition switch, following Ratchethack's advice. Make sure this fixes the constant warning light issue, if not, look to relays??? In any case, bypass the relay to an external one, following Greg's advice. (I am pretty sure I could have saved myself from buying a new regulator if I had known to do that!!!) Charge the battery, start up and IMMEDIATELY check that the charging voltage is within spec. If not, turn the engine off immediately, and look elsewhere, and report back Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.) Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Could this constant on state of warning lights on, POSSIBLY be caused by toasted diodes in regulator???? This might explain charging light, but not oil light???? Easy test is to pull the 30amp fuse. I have installed new regulator, with new 30A the lights are on, with fuse out, no light If the ignition switch (or relay, theoretically, but unlikely) is somehow stuck in a bridged on position, this could have significantly reduced your battery's state of charge, maybe not so much that you can't start, but enough that it puts a drain on the charging system.If discharged, the battery acts like a black hole, sucking every electrode it can away from your charging system!!!! The voltage regulator regulates voltage, not amperage, so when the battery is low, more amps than the wiring can handle may occur, and seems to have occurred in your situation. Also, more amps than can be handled by the voltage regulator and alternator can occur, and probably did occur, since you saw 17 Volts. You should charge your battery. battery is fully charged (12,9V) If you pull the 30amp fuse and the warning lights are still on,we can assume that the voltage regulator's diodes aren't the cause of the charging warning light on, when ignition is off. no fuse - no lights Once the diodes are eliminated as the culprit, fix the ignition switch, following Ratchethack's advice. Make sure this fixes the constant warning light issue, if not, look to relays??? I have swaped relays (just dont assume all 5 are blown ) In any case, bypass the relay to an external one, following Greg's advice. (I am pretty sure I could have saved myself from buying a new regulator if I had known to do that!!!)Charge the battery, start up and IMMEDIATELY check that the charging voltage is within spec. If not, turn the engine off immediately, and look elsewhere, and report back Best of luck. THX dlaing! I have just found store with superseal connectors so will do the wiring again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I have installed new regulator, with new 30A the lights are on, with fuse out, no light I implied that that might indicate bad diodes, but really it could mean bad other things, and probably is something else if both regulators produce same symptom. I'd suspect the charging line that Greg mentioned, or the regulator's ground, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasotibbs Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I have installed new regulator, with new 30A the lights are on, with fuse out, no lightno fuse - no lights What happens if you disconnect the regulator wires as I suggested ? If the lights stay on then you may have a short between the regulator side of the 30amp fuse and the regulator itself somewhere in the loom but perhaps in (or most likely below) the fusebox itself? It might be worth looking at the dash light wiring to see where the +ve feed is coming from when the ign is off then you can trace it back to its source ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.) Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 What happens if you disconnect the regulator wires as I suggested ?If the lights stay on then you may have a short between the regulator side of the 30amp fuse and the regulator itself somewhere in the loom but perhaps in (or most likely below) the fusebox itself? It might be worth looking at the dash light wiring to see where the +ve feed is coming from when the ign is off then you can trace it back to its source ? has dismountled all yesterday evening (I was so desperate that my mate made me a lasagane and brought it to garage ) so... wiring to el. loom is ok. small piece of isolation on wire going from regulator to charging light was worn, replaced. adapted all connectors around regulator to one APM superseal. no warning lights with fuses on and etc now - but haven't started yet... so that is the progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoguzznix Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Slavo disconnect the black/red wire from the regulator. Should work then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.) Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Slavo disconnect the black/red wire from the regulator. Should work then. black/red is the cabel to the warning light. So it will not light. Good, but how do i detect I am not charging during ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 black/red is the cabel to the warning light. So it will not light. Good, but how do i detect I am not charging during ride? The only time that light ever came on on the 1100 sport was about five secounds before all the smoke came out of the regulator. Check that the regulator has a good metal to metal contact between the case and the frame as it uses the case as a ground referance if it doesn't have a ground all sorts of odd stuff starts happening. Also check that the main battery earth lead has a good metal to metal contact (free of corrosion) where it attaches to the frame. Consider running an extra earth lead from the case of the regulator directly to the earth lead of the battery if you are still having issues. For future referance a Accel 32amp regulator for late 80's to late 90's Harley davidson is a suitable substitute for the Ducati pile of poo. There are also a number of ATV regulators that will also do the job however withthe atv regulators some have a wired earth and a remote trigger wire (12 volt supply which activates the regulator). For the V11's you do not need the trigger wire, buy the one without this feature no cost difference, however if it has the wired earth lead ENSURE IT IS CONNECTED just because the OEM one doesn't have one means you can get away with not connecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.) Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 so... amp superseal conectors mounted, new regulator installed - charging 14V on idle with lights and 14.5 in higher revs - I guess that is ok but: no oil light after powering the ignition and rpm meter is dead... what should be? I have focused mainly on charging wires, haven!t touched anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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