Guest ratchethack Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Yes. If you think even one manufactor (moto's or dampers) thinks that taking your hands off of the bars (even just one) is an acceptable idea (at speed) you are out of your head. But since you have untold amount of time to prowl and call supply me with a reference; name, number and company of such. By the way, if you check with your local legal advisor they may indicate that is actually law breaking to ride "will not in complete control". Now this has my full attention, just because it's so truly unique. Let's noodle this a bit, shall we? You're certainly a trailblazer on this one, Emry. I reckon this is all new territory. I'd still like to know where this idea came from, since it certainly didn't come from the DMV Class C M1 moto operator's licensing material I last learned for the test in my state, nor did it come from either of the two other states I've previously been licensed to operate motorcycles in, nor did it come from passing either the required written or the road course tests that it takes to receive the license in any of them, nor obviously did it come from any mfgr. of steering dampers, nor from any moto mfgr., including Guzzi. Lawbreaking you say?! I reckon the hand signals that moto operators are required to learn and demonstrate in the 3 states I'm familiar with (in circumstances where turn signals and/or brake lights aren't adequate for safety) pretty well snuffs your idea of a legal requirement to have both hands on the bars 100% of the time. Adjusting a steering damper while underway (as designed) takes a tiny fraction of the time with the left hand off the grip that a hand signal generally requires. I don't b'lieve I have a "legal advisor", (nor a parole officer) but if you actually believe wot you've posted, and you apparently have one with some expertise on motor vehicle and traffic safety codes as they apply to motorcycles, wot does YOUR "legal advisor" have to say about this? Wouldn't it seem somewhat ODD to you that ALL mfgr's of steering dampers, and ALL motorcycle mfgr's that fit them and lawfully sell them worldwide, including in every state in the USA -- as in 100% (as always) -- ALL legally have sold and fitted dampers for many decades, and continue to do so today with ergonomically friendly adjustment knobs located conspicuously within easy "no look" reach of the left hand (as opposed to being mounted out of reach underneath, under fairings and/or headlight buckets, or on the throttle side, for example)?? Now there are some fairly recently introduced "automated" speed adjusting steering damper designs out there, but doesn't it seem at least a bit of a curiosity to you that for the most part, there have been NONE -- as in 0% -- manual steering dampers fitted by ANY OEM to ANY moto anywhere with adjustments specifically designed to be IMPOSSIBLE to operate with the left hand while in riding position, so as to eliminate any attempt to adjust underway -- as if doing this presented some kind of a danger -- regardless of the design of the damper, or where the damper is located? I'm thinking instead of a handy knob, it would be a very simple matter to fit a screw adjustment, for example? I mean, the adjusters on these things are ALL simple design features that could just as easily (or easier) have been designed for OTHER THAN THE OBVIOUS PURPOSE, don't you think? No. . .no, I reckon not. I'll agree with you this far on the danger aspect of this: Anyone without enough dexterity to find and safely adjust a steering damper while underway is a danger to themselves and others, and certainly shouldn't be issued a license. Now as far as your request for references on manufacturers who "think" (your word) that operating steering dampers while underway is acceptable -- Unlike others here, I'm no claivoyant, but it would seem quite obvious to anyone what each and every mfgr's intent has always been, without exception. I hardly know where to begin. Start in your garage or wherever your Guzzi is. Look at your Guzzi. Look at another. Look at any moto with a steering damper. Look at any steering damper. Look at both. Look at all of both. If it isn't self-evident, please explain. Now as far as YOUR references go -- I reckon it was you who challenged me here, so would you be kind enough to back up the reference demand train (after the fact) and start again with at least something by way of a reference that supports your unique position? Have you ever seen a moto anywhere that supports your opinion that has not been "doctored up" so as not to allow a steering damper to be used as intended -- that is, to be adjusted for speed and conditions on the fly? Any evidence a-tall? I'm purely aghast. And beyond being exceedingly rapt in wonder, I'm also agog. . . And it usually takes Dave to get me all the way to agog. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 That is well reasoned, GM. Yet, "as delivered" my Sport sagged so much to the rear that any efforts to put more weight on the front increased stability. There is, of course, the "too much is too much" point. There's that relativity thing. And to hell with this red-ugly-image crap. I guarantee you the Sports are possessed by dominatrix vampirettes. She tried to kill me once and I'm here to tell about it. Been in the tunnel. Seen the white light. And the air dam of a 3-series BMW. If you're gonna post pictures of the VooDoo in the Machine, you're gonna have to get it right: [And, you know, once she scares the hell out of you, you just keep coming back. It's the VooDoo. You know you want it . . . you want the RedFrame VooDoo. You know you do . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I'm not touching Hacks comments. Even Ed said do this at your own risk. docc, setting sag correctly is a whole nother can of worms. And while you could compensate for too much rear sag by dropping the front, this is not "increasing" the steering head angle beyong the stock specs but putting it back where it was supposed to be in the first place. If you have too much rear sag the geometry is wrong to begin with and you need to fix that issue before you start messing with the geometry. Droppng the front to compensate for too much rear sag is not the way to go. First you correctly set sag front and rear. At that point you are about at the stock geometry specs (I say "about" because this is after all Guzzi we are talking about), from there you can adjust things like front and rear ride height. And until you cross the point of not having enough trail for proper stability you will not see a big change. Decreasing the front head angle with the back end too low is probably not actually decreasing trail from the stock spec but possibly reducing it down to the original amount intended. Meaning, if you lower both the front (dropping the front end thru the triple clamps)and the back (too much sag or shortening the shock) you are not increasing the head angle or decreasing the trail (if you do both evenly) as the two ends work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I have had my triple clamps up and down and back to where they are now (down 5mm). Translating that into changes in trail makes me dizzy . . . Not only did the increased rear preload help (along with the Ohlins!), but carrying the rear panniers with some load (tools, compressor, patch kit, first aid, Scotch) seems to give the rear suspension action some 'moment of inertia' that keeps her tracking and more stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I have had my triple clamps up and down and back to where they are now (down 5mm). Translating that into changes in trail makes me dizzy . . . Not only did the increased rear preload help (along with the Ohlins!), but carrying the rear panniers with some load (tools, compressor, patch kit, first aid, Scotch) seems to give the rear suspension action some 'moment of inertia' that keeps her tracking and more stable. Just don' let her get ya (the lusty RedFrame VooDoo Nymph) When has Scotch not helped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzi2Go Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Wouldn't it seem somewhat ODD to you that ALL mfgr's of steering dampers, and ALL motorcycle mfgr's that fit them and lawfully sell them worldwide, including in every state in the USA -- as in 100% (as always) -- have ALL legally sold and fitted dampers with ergonomically friendly adjustment knobs located conspicuously within easy "no look" reach of the left hand (as opposed to being mounted out of reach underneath, under fairings and/or headlight buckets, or on the throttle side, for example)?? Have you ever actually looked at your Guzzi? Where do you find your steering damper? Mine is under the fairing/headlight bucket. Mille GT I owned had it throttle side. Does that mean Guzzi sells them "unlawfully"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 well... I dismountled my old Bitubo and quite enjoyed the show that Guzzi did in slow turns...after some hundred kms ridden fast on not so good road... I gotta buy a new one 3 tankslaps (you know the move when your clip-ons hits the tank ) on horizonts in less than one hour... sorry, without the damper it is funny, but can be dangerous. Specially when you try to catch up with some Ducatis 999 and etc /I have wilbers front springs and also dropped the bike a bit in the yokes. Most sincerely pleased to know that you were able to walk away from your 3 embraces with the Extremely Twitchy Demon, Slavomir. I'm also encouraged that you seem to find humor in an obviously dangerous circumstance, my friend. Having survived, you've simply gotta laugh, don't you? But according to the persistent Old Wive's Tale (still being perpetuated hereabouts), the Extremely Twitchy Demon only possesses red-frame Guzzi's, and yours is a long-frame 26-degree rake frame?! But the real Q is this: After you replace your steering damper, how do you intend to exorcise the Extremely Twitchy Demon? Is there a Voodoo priestess near you in the Czech Republic? How about a Ghostbusters branch office? Deep in a trance, and well liquored-up with rum, Madame Gatore Grosse Bayou prepares for an Extremely Twitchy Red-frame Demon exorcism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Have you ever actually looked at your Guzzi? Where do you find your steering damper? Mine is under the fairing/headlight bucket. Mille GT I owned had it throttle side. Does that mean Guzzi sells them "unlawfully"? Your "logic" escapes me, G2G. I saw a motorcycle once with a surfboard rack on it riding down the street. I've seen many things done to motorcycles that defy both common sense and law. I'm not sure if you have any point to make here or not, G2G, but in any case, it looks like you've owned 2 Guzzis without using their steering dampers as designed and intended. Too bad about that, but it's not all that surprising. After all, it's pretty common. Using one properly can contribute a great deal to the comfort, enjoyment, and safety of riding. But how would you ever know unless or until you'd ever used one correctly? As Paul Thede, Pres. of RaceTech, the foremost moto suspension training and certification org in the USA has been quoted, "The best you've ridden is the best you know." http://www.racetech.com/page.aspx?id=27&menuid=89 I think you'll find that, like every other OEM, no Guzzi with a "modern" viscous-damped steering damper ever left Mandello with the adjustment located where it couldn't be easily and safely adjusted on the road, as intended. By all means, please do your best to prove this common sense assumption wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Just don' let her get ya (the lusty RedFrame VooDoo Nymph) Good to see you gettin' in THE SPIRIT of things (so to speak) on this thread, Docc. Carry on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I think you'll find that, like every other OEM, no Guzzi with a "modern" viscous-damped steering damper ever left Mandello with the adjustment located where it couldn't be easily and safely adjusted on the road, as intended. While it is practically possible to adjust the stock 1100 Sport or Daytona RS damper while moving, it is definitely neither easy or safe. The fairing is in the way. I believe the fairing was intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 While it is practically possible to adjust the stock 1100 Sport or Daytona RS damper while moving, it is definitely neither easy or safe. The fairing is in the way. I believe the fairing was intended. Thanks Raz. Knowing there are so many working so hard to prove me wrong is always greatly encouraging! By all means leave us confirm this as either "the exception to the rule" for 1100 Sport and Daytona RS, (and any others), or "the rule" on all applicable models -- upon which confirmation I will stand corrected on my statement above, if need be, WRT these exceptions -- with of course, a reminder that all other Guzzi's (until credibly ID'd otherwise) were shipped from the factory with the same design and operating intent as virtually ALL other motos equipped with viscous damped steering dampers -- that is, for easiest and safest possible adjustment "on the fly". Any others? I'd be more than curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 FWIW, Matris offers 2 different steering dampers for the V11. from the Matris site: "They are adjustable for the damping rate via an easy to use-on-the-fly knob." http://www.exoticsportbike.com/matris_steering_damper.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 FWIW, Matris offers 2 different steering dampers for the V11. "They are adjustable for the damping rate via an easy to use-on-the-fly knob." You mustn't take a superficial few on what manufacturers' phrases appear to say. Clearly these devices, to be legal, are designed to be used by all races and creeds. I therefore ran that phrase through a few translations to check its meaning. Back into English, it is true to say the meaning is shown to also be, "They are suitable for extinguishing rate easy-to-use-of-a-button fly." This issue isn't as simple as this thread would lead you to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I've not ever tinked around with my fly while riding. On the other hand, the damper adjustment on the 2000 Sport is as easy and safe to adjust as making a hand turn signal or adjusting a faceshield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.) Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Most sincerely pleased to know that you were able to walk away from your 3 embraces with the Extremely Twitchy Demon, Slavomir. I'm also encouraged that you seem to find humor in an obviously dangerous circumstance, my friend. Having survived, you've simply gotta laugh, don't you? But according to the persistent Old Wive's Tale (still being perpetuated hereabouts), the Extremely Twitchy Demon only possesses red-frame Guzzi's, and yours is a long-frame 26-degree rake frame?! But the real Q is this: After you replace your steering damper, how do you intend to exorcise the Extremely Twitchy Demon? Is there a Voodoo priestess near you in the Czech Republic? How about a Ghostbusters branch office? Deep in a trance, and well liquored-up with rum, Madame Gatore Grosse Bayou prepares for an Extremely Twitchy Red-frame Demon exorcism Like your style Ratch Yes, I have the longer frame. Biggest part on the slaps has poor quality of the road and front wheel off the groud, you know the way and when going turn-horizont-turn... these thing happens, even to long frames Like riding fast and want to have "bit of comfort" on bumpy asphalt (plenty of this in CZ ) so, gotta try new damper, if I dont like it, here will be plenty of "V-eleventers" who might be interested in buying slightly used damper have a nice day you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now