Cabernet Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 http://www.starbrite.com/en/startron Has anyone tried this stuff to protect the V11 plastic tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamberlin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Nope- I thought about using an Ethanol "stabilizer" on my new virgin tank, but from what I remember reading, I don't think a stabilizer is enough to protect against the water absorbtion problem. I've decided to just remove the Ethanol myself and add back in an Octane booster (RaceGas.com). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 ... I've decided to just remove the Ethanol myself ... How will you do that? Will you go for Ethanol free distributors or can you really remove it? Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamberlin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 ... I've decided to just remove the Ethanol myself ... How will you do that? Will you go for Ethanol free distributors or can you really remove it? Hubert Hubert, the Ethanol free petrol suppliers are quickly disappearing from the USA because of huge corn Ethanol subsidies the government is supporting. There are no pure gas locations within 100 miles from my location. My friend tells me to use 100LL aviation fuel but I have to do more research on that….I suppose our Guzzi valves would enjoy those lead compounds! I will also look further into Cabernet’s Startron enzyme treatment too as there are many different Ethanol treatment additives out there. I’m not familiar with this one. I’m curious how it works, if not binding something to the Ethanol groups. Regarding the removal of Ethanol from gasoline, it is simply a matter of adding distilled/deionized water and waiting for phase separation to happen. Then, drain off the resultant compounds and excess water (which are denser than gasoline). Because America’s E10 gas blends use the Ethanol as the primary source for raising the Octane rating, you must also add back in something to boost the Octane back up to safe levels. I will be using the new RaceGas additive. It’s a fairly simple process, but it will be somewhat dangerous, expensive and will produce a nasty compound that I must somehow dispose of. That said, I am determined to give it a try, and see what kind of results I can get; if not just for experimentation’s sake. I hate that the E-gas has been forced upon us and the free market choice has disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Damm..... I mean, fuel is expensive here in Holland. But at least I dont have to brew my own stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 My understanding is that "ethanol treatment" is a stabilizer that would not remove the ethanol per se, but would it prevent the ethanol from degrading into water and therefor block the absorption into the (nylon) tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamberlin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Docc, I think you are on the right track, but Ethanol does not 'degrade' into water. But maybe you mean 'bind' with another compund that prevents Ethanol from being so damn Hydroscopic (it's the absorbed water that really makes the PA-6 polymer tanks expand). Lots of good stuff here, if your brain is ready for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120517170037AAlSJvz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That makes sense. So the water problem comes from external exposure? Made worse in damp climates, extended storage situations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamberlin Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 That makes sense. So the water problem comes from external exposure? Made worse in damp climates, extended storage situations? Yes! If for example, you lived in a very humid environment, but were able to keep your gas tank perfectly sealed from atmospheric exposure, there would likely never be a problem. But our tanks are far from 'air tight', and something has to replace the volume evacuated up by the burnt gas, so that would be Air...always with some percent of water vapor. The more the gas is exposed to the water vapor containing air, the more Ethanol molocules that bind to it and the more water that will work its way into the Nylon. Yes, an always topped off tank mitigates this problem (less air inside the tank). Yes, if you ride all the time and you fill up frequently, again not a problem. It's storage that's the real problem. The other downside effect, even if you had a metal tank, is that this water/ethanol concoction is heavier than gas, ends up at the bottom, and if it has a chance to evaporate completely, turns into a nasty amber sludge, causing other issues. This in addition to the less 'power' per volume unit, and the other potential corrosive properties to some materials, is why I am such an opponent to Ethanol blends. Engines designed for Ethanol (say E85) are fantastically powerful, and awesome...no doubt Ethanol is a great fuel on its own accord...but I have strong beliefs against blending it into fuels destined for engines made to be powered by pure gasoline. That's just the science/mechanical side of things...don't even get me started on the politics of the situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 So, with the V11 tank being a "pannier" or "saddle" affair, could the bottom badness be aspirated off from time to time with a simple pump inserted into the deep recesses on each side? Or would that make any difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamberlin Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Or install bleeder petcocks? In theory I think would work, but in practice, it would be very difficult to 'vacuum' out the low lying areas which might simply amount to a 1mm layer of bad stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 And Nylon(s) seemed like such a good idea on so many levels . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamberlin Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I think a couple of posts went missing during the server outage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I think a couple of posts went missing during the server outage? Yes, the links you posted are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chamberlin Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Does anybody have the email alerts for this thread that contain my last post? I have Hubert's comment on email, but not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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