slowkitty Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Dear all, I have a suspect dud TPS. Expensive part from Guzzi. The outcome of my internet search is: The V11 Sport uses a Marelli PF3C (Guzzi p/n 01530500). It seems that certain Ducatis uses the same part. There is a cheaper alternative here https://ca-cycleworks.com/pf3c, but with the express caveat that it is only for California and not other Guzzi models. Other folks have used Harley's TPS, but I like to the new one from cycyworks if that is possible. Anyone tried? Appreciate the feedback. Otherwise I may be the guinea pig here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowkitty Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 This was also very informative .... http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69610.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 You suspect a dud TPS , do you know how to test it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camn Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Other folks have used Harley's TPS The curve of the Harley tps is not the same as the curve of the PF3C. Since Cali and V11 use the same PF3C, I can not see any reason, why the tps of cycleworks should not work on a V11, I understand that they send a nice test curve with each tps. It would be interesting to know why they write like that on their website, a mistake? (the picture is from some Guzzi -site, I have no note where I took it from) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 So, what is my Harley TPS doing to my Sport's mapping? It is as if the throttle is opening faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Other folks have used Harley's TPS The curve of the Harley tps is not the same as the curve of the PF3C. Since Cali and V11 use the same PF3C, I can not see any reason, why the tps of cycleworks should not work on a V11, I understand that they send a nice test curve with each tps. It would be interesting to know why they write like that on their website, a mistake? (the picture is from some Guzzi -site, I have no note where I took it from) From the distant recesses of my mind, I vaguely remember somebody giving them grief when it wasn't exactly the same as whatt was on their V11, and their lawyer speak had them put that in their blurb. As far as I know, it'll work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jharvey Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 What's the difference in cost? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowkitty Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 You suspect a dud TPS , do you know how to test it ? Hi, my suspicion came about when I swapped out a mate's TPS for the one on my bike. Marked difference. What's the difference in cost? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Internet wisdom place the Cycyleworks' at US$89, while the Guzzi part is over US$200 I reckon. So no one tried the Cyclework's on a V11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowRyter Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Dear all, I have a suspect dud TPS. Expensive part from Guzzi. The outcome of my internet search is: The V11 Sport uses a Marelli PF3C (Guzzi p/n 01530500). It seems that certain Ducatis uses the same part. There is a cheaper alternative here https://ca-cycleworks.com/pf3c, but with the express caveat that it is only for California and not other Guzzi models. Other folks have used Harley's TPS, but I like to the new one from cycyworks if that is possible. Anyone tried? Appreciate the feedback. Otherwise I may be the guinea pig here. I am actually involved in this. It goes back a couple of years when myself and another fellow on Wild Guzzi had TPS failures. Mine on the EV and I can't remember his Guzzi. I got a Harley TPS and the other fellow got that one from Cal Cycleworks. Neither worked. I believe they were both defective. Afterwards, I went to a mechanic that specialized in Ducatis and he got another one from Cal Cycle. It worked for about 3 months and failed. He got me a replacement. Cal Cycles checked the replacement before they sent it. It seems to be working OK for a year now, I still get a hick-up at about 3500 rpm depending on the load (light). I've covered it by enriching the trim tab on the computer. Anyway, my mechanic Don was the guy that got Cal Cycleworks to more or less give them confidence to say they will work on the Guzzi California. I think they are still gun shy about other applications. Personally, I think these TPS are all made in China and are probably not high quality (I don't care if it says Magnetti, Harley or Cal Cycles). That's the why of the story. I think the Cal Cycleworks piece will work on a V11 Sport/Lemans if it isn't defective. This is the same OEM part number that matches Guzzis and Ducati Monsters. The Harley part is actually a different OEM part number. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meinolf Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Hi, Dear all, a) I have a suspect dud TPS. Expensive part from Guzzi. ...The V11 Sport uses a Marelli PF3C (Guzzi p/n 01530500). It seems that certain Ducatis uses the same part. c) There is a cheaper alternative here https://ca-cycleworks.com/pf3c, but with the express caveat that it is only for California and not other Guzzi models. d) Other folks have used Harley's TPS... a) Have you checked and confirmed if the TPS is defective? With GuzziDiag you can perform a fast but very reliable check if something is amiss without touching the TPS itself. Select Diagram in the View section and slowly open and close the throttle. The resulting curve should be smooth and consistent with a knee at 30°, beginning where the TPS has a different resistance curve. b&c) The PF3C used by Ducati is the same one as on Guzzis. Going by the curve shown by Cycleworks this is the one you need. d) You can use any TPS which can be fastened to the throttle body. If it has a different curve then the TPS lookup table in the BIN has to be changed so that the voltage delivered by the TPS at all openings corresponds to the values in that table. Most of what needs to be known to understand the TPS operation was already explained here: http://archive.guzzitech.com/HD-TPS-Jeff_B.html Below picture shows the TPS lookup table from a 15M. The lower table is not part of the BIN, it's just a calculated table to show the voltages corresponding to degrees with a PF3C. Adapting the TPS lookup table to TPS with a different curve is quite simple. Use the curve formula of the TPS and calculate a table with corresponding degrees and voltage breakpoints. Change the values in the TPS lookup table accordingly and it's done. Cheers Meinolf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 A while back I identified a Hall Effect TPS that should fit the Guzzi. The nice thing about Hall Effect is it has no sliding parts, the angle of rotation is transferred magnetically so it should last forever. Digikey have HE TPS units for around $40 but the problem is selecting the right one, a while back I purchased a Honeywell one that looked like it would work but it was just a tad too big. Digikey part no 693-1001-ND or 693-1003-ND look interesting, they have an output of 50mV to 4.5 Volts The curve doesn't have a knee though, it's strictly straight. Points to consider Rotation degrees, I think 180° Update No 90° is what you need CW or CCW rotation Spring loaded or not The slot or tang to fit Hall Effect TPS millivolts doesn't start quite as low as the old slidewire type Perhaps an expert like Meinolf could write up a spec for a new Hall Effect unit The map might need to be modified slightly, I don't think Hall Effect has the same knee in the slope The second paragraph d) "you can use any TPS that can be fastened to the throttle body" should we also say any TPS that is readily available 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoguzzi Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 a long time ago I used the Harley TPS ($40.00us) on both my spine frame and Cal EV/Bassa.. they were a slightly different MM part # but I could not feel any difference or notice anything wrong on VDST.. it worked fine just like the stock part that was way over $200. back then.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 A while back I identified a Hall Effect TPS that should fit the Guzzi. The nice thing about Hall Effect is it has no sliding parts, the angle of rotation is transferred magnetically so it should last forever. Digikey have HE TPS units for around $40 but the problem is selecting the right one, a while back I purchased a Honeywell one that looked like it would work but it was just a tad too big. Digikey part no 693-1001-ND or 693-1003-ND look interesting, they have an output of 50mV to 4.5 Volts The curve doesn't have a knee though, it's strictly straight. Points to consider Rotation degrees, I think 180° CW or CCW rotation Spring loaded or not The slot or tang to fit Hall Effect TPS millivolts doesn't start quite as low as the old slidewire type Perhaps an expert like Meinolf could write up a spec for a new Hall Effect unit The map might need to be modified slightly, I don't think Hall Effect has the same knee in the slope The second paragraph d) "you can use any TPS that can be fastened to the throttle body" should we also say any TPS that is readily available I looked at these 2 on DigiKey. I don't believe they'll work, because it says the rotation angle is 0° ~ 360°, Continuous. I believe ours is more like a 90 degree rotation. And, it says "Clockwise increase" . Agree, though, that Hall effect would be very cool--no "wiping" contact. Stick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Digikey part no 693-1001-ND or 693-1003-ND look interesting, they have an output of 50mV to 4.5 Volts The curve doesn't have a knee though, it's strictly straight. Interesting. Well spotted Roy. I think I will by one of these when I put my next order in with them. The 693-1002-ND claims 90 degrees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 things . 1 I was always uner the assumption that all TPSs were linear . 2 how can a hall effect switch pass / put out / emit a variable resistance / voltage ? I was under the impression it transmitted a square wave ( on / off ) , being more of a switch and could not transmit a variable R or E (voltage) . Does this now work as a variable capacitor ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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