Clutch life, wear and general experience

[PeterT]

My V11 is coming up to doing 58000 miles and I like to tour with it, sometimes in Europe.  Obviously I don't want it to let me down anytime when I'm literally >1000miles form home and in a foreign country it is doubly important.  I've just no idea how long I would expect the clutch to last.  Because I was riding a different bike over the summer, when I came back to my V11 recently I was conscious that the clutch biting point was quite close to the lever being fully released.  It has probably always been like this but it started to get me thinking about whether the clutch might let me down in the middle of a tour.  What experience can anyone share about the signs I should expect to see that indicates that the clutch needs replacing?  What is the likely life (mileage) I should expect?   Does the bite point change as it wears or not?  Is there an adjustment?  Is there something I can measure that would indicate the amount of wear it already has (short of dismantling the engine to measure the plate thickness directly) and hence what further life should I expect?  Anything that may help me gain confidence that this won't let me down or would justify me getting it replaced before it does, would be appreciated.

[Pressureangle]

Maybe a better way to ask is, "Who has actually replaced a clutch because it wore out and stopped working?" I just replaced the clutch in the new-to-me 63k mile 2000 V11 Sport because it came in a basket but truly, the clutch looks like it was about half baked. There was some crowning in the pressure plate and center disc, but by the look the previous owner used the clutch a lot and in traffic. The clutch in my '85 LeMans at 50k miles wasn't as bad as that, either. After getting to 105k miles in my single-disc BMW GS and having it fail because the throwout bearing died and greased the disc I'll say I won't ever take one apart that works properly. The throwout bearing is probably worth a look and grease or replacement if you have the rear tire off, but even that wear is probably more a function of how many hours it's stood in traffic than miles in gear. <shrug> I'm way less sensitive about clutches in general than I was when everything I owned had a wet clutch. 

[pete roper]

The old twin plate clutch lasts just about forever as long as it isn’t abused. As mentioned above, a lot of city/stop/start work is harder on it but the usual reasons for replacement will be either oiling from a seal going, (Most usually the pushrod seals.) or the splines of both the friction plates and the gearbox input shaft hub getting notched and worn preventing clean separation of the plates. The flywheel also can be notched by the intermediate plate splines. The best way to avoid that problem is to make sure the throttlebodies are kept balanced and the engine idle speed is kept up around the 1,200rpm mark. Yes you can get them to tick over much lower but it isn’t good for either the clutch splines, (Especially if you are one of those people who holds the clutch in at traffic lights and the like.) or engine bearings!

There have also been issues from time to time with runs of crack prone plates that tended to tear their centres out and some that had the friction material delaminate from the steel centres but it is impossible to pick those without inspection and failure tends to be sudden and without warning!

As for the friction point and its relation to the lever? I can’t remember offhand if the V11 lever uses a barrel and plunger in the lever itself? If it does it may well be adjustable but I’d rely on those with more extensive and recent experience on that.

[audiomick]

25 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

Maybe a better way to ask is, "Who has actually replaced a clutch because it wore out and stopped working?"

Good point, so just for fun I put "clutch replacement" in the forum search, and chose "clutch and replacement". This is what came up:

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/search/?q=clutch replacement&quick=1&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=and

The clutch itself doesn't seem to be much of an issue, unless it is one of the special models with the single-plate clutch. The slave cylinder could become relevant, maybe.

 

I see that @pete roper has replied as I write, so I'll stop now. 

Edited October 21 by audiomick

[Tomchri]

Had to change the clutch on my Rosso Corsa with 47000km. About 50% left, but a few rivets had disintegrated. 1100 Sport clutch was finished at 95000km, understandable. Bleed the system. 

Cheers Tom.

[audiomick]

2 hours ago, PeterT said:

My V11 is coming up to doing 58000 miles...

 

3 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

... 1100 Sport clutch was finished at 95000km, understandable. 

95,000 km is about 59,000 miles. Hmmm... 

[Tomchri]

I'm not a clutcher, but more clutch wear with the Sport because of 1gear, quite high. She hates traffic.

Cheers Tom.

[Pressureangle]

18 hours ago, PeterT said:

  Because I was riding a different bike over the summer, when I came back to my V11 recently I was conscious that the clutch biting point was quite close to the lever being fully released.  It has probably always been like this but it started to get me thinking about whether the clutch might let me down in the middle of a tour.  What experience can anyone share about the signs I should expect to see that indicates that the clutch needs replacing?  

Thinking about the clutch release a while. A hydraulic system properly bled doesn't change over the course of the clutch's life, and the engagement depends largely on the ratio of the master/slave and clutch composition. I have 3 styles of dry clutches at hand; '74 Aermacchi 350, cable operated and iirc has 6 friction plates. 3 twin-plate Guzzis; 2 cable, 1 hydraulic conversion. 1 '04 BMW GSA single-plate hydraulic. 
Simple correlation is, the less plates the narrower the friction zone and sensitive engagement. After riding nearly anything else, the BMW makes you wonder how a company famous for good stuff made something so horrible, then installed it in something actually named *Dirt/Street Adventure*. So going back to these after riding a wet-clutch bike always brings surprise.
The throwout bearing in the BMW failed this summer (105k miles) and sent fluid up the clutch pushrod which eventually found it's way to the back of the friction disc. I rode it 4k more miles that way, carefully, noting that the clutch engagement was smoother (lol) but right at the first touch of the lever.  With everything new, it's still pretty quick on the lever but the engagement takes more movement. So to the point, Guzzi throwout bearings are pretty well lubricated by normal environment but also a known wear point. If you spend a lot of time holding the clutch in, or don't know the full history of the bike, it's probably worth the time to inspect the bearing. The clutch itself, if it's working it's working. Even if it's at end-of-life, you'll get plenty of warning before it becomes unrideable. 

[PeterT]

Many thanks for all your experience.  Given I tend to do long trips, hate town riding so avoid where I can, I suspect that all is ok but I will replace the clutch fluid this winter since that is slightly overdue.  The fact that I'm likely to have good warning of its end-of-life, is comforting.  Thanks