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audiomick

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audiomick last won the day on February 9

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About audiomick

  • Birthday 11/11/1963

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    Leipzig
  • My bike(s)
    1983 V35 Imola _ _ _ 2003 Breva 750 i.e. 2002 V11 Le Mans

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  1. And another thing. This is all very hypothetical, so don't just take it as granted. Getting back to the two green wires, one on battery plus and one on battery minus. Given that it seems that whoever did the mods to the wiring did it all fairly conventionally, it remains a mystery why one green wire is plus, and the other is minus. According to convention (as I know it...) green is usually used for "earth" (or yellow/green). Assuming the man was following convention, that would indicate that both green wires should be on the minus pole of the battery. So if we assume that the green wires on the battery are the same green wires on the relays, and that they are connected to 85/86 on the relays, and that the green wire on battery plus is actually intended to be the "earth" for the switching side of the relay that should be switching on the low beam, i.e. the way back to the battery from the green/grey wire on the relay, and therefore should actually be on battery minus then, when the ignition is on and the light switch is on "low beam", the switching side of the relay will be "seeing" 12V at both ends of the coil (because the green wire is on plus instead of minus), and therefore wont pull in and switch on the low beam. If we further assume that there is a really grotty connection somewhere along the path of the green/grey wire up to the relay, then it might be possible that enough current leak is happening (from the connector to the frame or engine/gearbox case, somwhow) to pull in the relay when the ignition is off and activate the relay and turn on the low beam. (12 V through the green wire from battery plus to the switching side of the relay, and back to the battery through the shitty connection, somehow) As I said, pure speculation, but maybe the relay is ok (test it as described above) and you have one or several bad (really dirty) connections. Which brings us back to the point, regardless of how the relay checks out: check and clean all the connections. And trace all the wires back and make a diagramm. And don't just swap wires around on spec. Follow the wires and understand what is supposed to be happening first. Shorting the battery is not a good idea.
  2. Ok, I've had another look at the wiring diagram, and I think it contradicts itself. Obviously, the cryptic letters next to the wires in the diagram are the abbreviation of the colours of the wires in Italian. With the help of deepl.com, this is what I get by following the wires, and referring to the numbers next to the headlight symbols and the legend. But: you wrote and the wiring diagram shows that the brown wire also feeds a tell-tale in the dashboard. That must be the high-beam indicator. There isn't a light on the dash showing that low-beam is on. and the wiring diagram shows that the "Lo" position of the headlight switch feeds the green/grey wire, and the "High" position and the "Pass" switch the brown wire So I think you are on the right track, and that the legend of the wiring diagram is wrong. The "1" and the "3" next to the symbols for the headlight are apparently swapped. The brown wire originally fed power to the high-beam, the green/grey to the low beam. That whoever did the modification used the original power feed for the lights to switch a relay that feeds through power directly from the battery is fairly standard practice, I gather. So, it sounds like you might just have a broken relay. Change the relay that the green/grey wire is going through. Or better still, swap the relays and see if the low-beam then works, and the high beam doesn't. Put a label on all the wires before you unplug anything!!! If the low beam works with the relay from the high beam, then you know for sure that the relay is the problem. I still can't figure out why the low beam goes on with the ignition off, but maybe the relay has just shit itself in a major fashion and is doing weird stuff.
  3. Another thought: what if the two relays on the headlight shell, presumably one for high and one for low beam, are different, and the low beam one has the load (low beam) connected a "normally closed" instead of a "normally open"? That would do it, I think. However, looking closely at the photos, it seems likely that they are both the same type. Which leads me to a further thought: In this photo, we can see two green wires coming from the battery, one from plus, and one from minus and in this one, assuming the two relays are the same type and mounted the same way around (it looks like they are), on both of them a green wire on the same terminal of each. So what's going on there? Going by the diagram that @Weegie posted further up, that might be 85 or 86, in which case it might not be relevant (works both ways, assuming there is no diode in there), but it seems odd to me. Or at least sloppy.
  4. @docc very good question. What occurs to me is that possibly one or more of the myriad spade connectors has landed on the wrong terminal. To be honest, I can't easily imagine what could go wrong inside the ignition switch to cause the described effect, but who knows. I'm not saying it is impossible. A couple of questions for @Tennitragic, because I can't recall you having commented on these points: Was the problem there when you bought the bike, or did it just turn up out of nowhere when everything had previously worked, or did you do some work on the bike after which the problem turned up? If it is the case that the problem turned up after you worked on something, what did you do exactly? Once again, I'm more and more of the opinion that the solution is only going to become clear when all the "custom" wiring has been traced back to see what has been done, and how it is all intended to work.
  5. Yes, that would work of course. The two pins are simply the two ends of the switch. The main argument for sticking to the convention in that case is so that the next person who works on it knows without checking which wire is hot.
  6. Yes. @Tennitragic perhaps it might help to not lose sight of this thought: The circuit may look complex on the wiring diagram, and in fact practicality determines that there are connections between wires that don't always immediately make sense, but The circuit always can be reduced to nothing more than a feed from the power source (battery plus), a load, and a line back to the "other side" of the power source (battery minus). There is nearly always a switch in there too, which can be on the way from battery plus to the load, or on the way back from the load to battery minus. One case, for instance, of a circuit without a switch is a particular pin on the ECU that gets permanent 12V from the battery, which is why the battery goes flat if the bike isn't ridden for several weeks. The confusing connections on the wiring diagram are generally nothing more than common feeds of battery plus to various parts of the loom, and common "earth connections", i.e. back to battery minus. Bear that in mind, and the wiring diagram will make sense.
  7. No, 30 is always the feed in direct from battery plus, whether it is a relay or some other component. The numbers were first defined in a DIN, of course. Very German thing to do... It is not as confusing as it appears at first glance. The numbers are more or less arbitrary, there is no particular system that I can identify other than that numbers that were established in the same "run" are often sequential, like the 85, 86, 87 on relays. The only point of it all is to have a number on the pin that is standarised, so that everyone knows what the pin is for without having to open the component and have a look inside. I just found a listing in English: https://automotive.wiki/index.php/Terminal_Designation EDIT: bugger, I've just noticed the list isn't complete. 2nd Edit: Wiki to the rescue! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552 and just for the hell of it, in German... https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klemmenbezeichnung#Liste_der_Klemmenbezeichnungen_in_Kfz_und_ihrer_Bedeutung
  8. Yes, it is. The "upside down" was only referring to one of the photos further up. The things in the photo weren't upside down, but the photo itself is.
  9. Indeed, that should be done. There has, apparently, been some extensive and maybe "creative" mods done to the wiring. The photo of the battery makes it obvious. Interesting, that there is a green wire coming from both the + and the - terminal. I would have tried to keep the colours seperated. Anyway, what has been done doesn't have to be bodged. It might make sense, or it might not. The thing is, I can't imagine that a previous owner took the trouble to make all the changes an not have had it working. So your problem is most likely the same as if it were all original: it used to work, and now something is broken. Most likely either a bad connection somewhere, or several, or/and one of the relays is not doing its thing. Which brings us back to the multimeter. Follow the volts from the plus side of the battery, measure the resistance back to the minus ("earth") side, and make sure that components that should be switching something really are doing that, i.e. measure Ohms across the switch contact, activate the switch, and see if the circuit is being closed. PS: write it all down as you go. When you have a record of the modifications, and when you have it all working again, you can go back an think about whether the mods are all sensible, or whether you want to change something. Like I said, it might all make sense.
  10. @Tennitragic Mate, can you show us a photo of your battery, paying particular attention to the situation around the + terminal? When someone buggerises around with the electrickery, the battery, particulary the plus terminal, generally acquires additional connections. A photo would probably allow some knowlegable member here to further confirm that someone has "improved" the wiring.
  11. Just to verify, I took a couple of photos of the back of my headlight when I was in the garage earlier today. Not good pictures, I'm afraid, but I was suprisingly unwilling to take off the fairing just to get a better photo...
  12. A thought occurs to me: maybe the mod has more to do with the starter circuit than the lighting. The V11 is prone to what is often referred to as "startus interruptus", i.e. when one presses the starter button, one is rewarded only with a click from the solenoid on the starter motor. The cause is insufficient power to the solenoid to pull it in properly. This is a problem that not only the V11 models suffer from. The common solution is to feed the starter solenoid directly from the battery, i.e. the power feed to the starter relay and from there to the starter solenoid, which is switched by the starter switch, directly from the battery. That is how I solved the problem on my Breva 750 i.e., but it is not that simple on a V11. The starter relay is of the type that has both a normally closed and a normally open contact. In the "resting" position, the normally closed contact feeds power from the ignition switch to the lighting relay, thus holding the lighting relay closed, i.e. "switched on", thereby feeding power through from the battery to the headlight. In the "switched on" position, the normally open contact of the starter relay is now closed, thereby taking the power away from the lighting relay (good plan, the lights go off when the starter is engaged) and feeding it instead to the starter motor. This means, if one were to feed the power to the starter relay directly from the battery, the lights would be one all the time because the starter relay feeds the power to the lighting relay in its "resting" position. Therefore, in order to supply the starter solenoid with power directly from the battery, it is necessary to add another relay for this purpose. There are some threads here on the subject, which one might be able to find by searching "sixth relay" or something like that. So, to cut to the chase, maybe someone has done that modification and mounted the additional relay up near the headlight. I would have tried to integrate it into the row of original relays, not hard with the right parts, but not everyone is as much of a perfectionist as me.
  13. That should be true, I think, but the headlight relay should get the power directly from the battery. Look (again) at the diagram I posted here. It is allegedly for the models from 2001 - 2003, so it should be right for a Tenni, I think. Anyway, regarding this: The first two, yes, that appears to be a photo of the headlight shell, and it is upside down. I reckon that it is a fair assumption that someone has modified the wiring and added a further relay. There is nothing like that construction behind the headlight of my 2002 Le Mans, which I believe should be electrically the same as a Tenni. Also, the green and red wires in the picture seem to be thicker than any I have seen in that area of mine, and the spade connectors with the blue boots are, as you commented @Weegie, not original. I'd say someone's been at it, and @Tennitragic probably has no option other than to follow the wires and find out what's been done.
  14. For what it is worth, here is the result of that. The wiring diagram is on page 459 of this PDF, according to the document viewer https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/V11_1999-2003_Atelier(Compil-GB-D-NL).pdf The legend is on the following page. Here is what I got. Maybe it will help someone.
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