callison Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 But how do they determine the nominal value of fuel flow from the ECU? and what does it represent? 42538[/snapback] As a guess, I think they probably looked at the fuel pressure:flow for the injector as listed by the manufacturer. Pretty simple math for that. Limited the percentage of influence the PCIII has over the injedtor pulse length avoids having to develope a complete map of your own. It's sensible enough as an add on piece of hardware. If you can go the whole route and optimize the ECU itself, you wouldn't need the PCIII. It probably boils down to simple economics and warranty issues. The PCIII far less expensive than a good dyno tune and you can simply remove it and then take the bike to the dealer. While a dealer is not likely to discern that the map of the factory ECU has been changed, you might lose the unit if the dealer trades it out as part of a repair - then you would lose an expensive investment. Going back to the injector pulse for just a bit. The injector is an electromechanical device. Under ideal conditions it sprays a consistent pattern with no dribbles etc. If some crud makes its way into the injector, it's bound to change the effect of the ECU signal, and not in a positive fashion. Those injectors have an itty-bitty screen filter in them. They're about a $1.50 each but you have to buy $25 worth when you find a source. Or at least I did. Now I have enough spares for the next 10 or twenty years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 They're about a $1.50 each but you have to buy $25 worth when you find a source. Or at least I did. Now I have enough spares for the next 10 or twenty years... 42557[/snapback] Want to sell a couple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebulon Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 this was the 2003/2004 look with the moto spezial unit 2005 will be lightly different a new release of the moto spezial program is going to be upload and then i will start again with my custom work on the program ! I also bought another Moto Spezial Unit for the Interceptor 2006 project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Do we have to wait until 2006 to see the interceptor? The 2004 looks hot enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebulon Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Do we have to wait until 2006 to see the interceptor?The 2004 looks hot enough 42827[/snapback] You will have to at least wait for 2006 spring i am actually working on Miss Dayto to put the ohlins radial fork + pvm wheels etc .. For Zebulon aka Supertwin an deutch aluminium guy is working on a new special tank for the supertwin. The 2006project is a new bike i started to work on. More extreme and nearly dedicated to trake. Already have racing frame , engine + gearbox (but "need" to be tuned), billet triple clamp, Ohlins Superbike FG370 fork (108 mm radial calipers), rear seat from honda 500 nsr, carbon kevlar air box, magnesium pvm wheels (waiting to receive it but it is a question of few days), drive shaft . Moto-spezial computer ordered, special wire loop with 2 lambda probes in progress too. Searching for aluminum swing arm, ohlins rear shock, handle bars and a lot of other parts. For the engine the idea is to get up to 1300 cc engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 If you get the MG ti racing kit would you still need to look at getting a PCIII? I don't know if this has been covered somewhere or not so if it has my forgiviness please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 The Ti Muffler/ Ti ECU combo theoretically would not need the PCIII as it is for track only and does not need to meet emission standards. You cand find maps for the Ti combo here http://www.guzzitech.com/PCIII-Maps.html But to really benefit, you would want to tuninglink the bike with the PCIII. According to Todd, the Ti owners who dynotuned their PCIII really benefitted. If you want to see how much the maps differed you could freely download the PCIII software and open the maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I had another question how much do those Supertwins cost?. I really like the blue one how much better do they perform for you? is it entirely hand made or are there possible other units planned for the future? I tried looking at the website you have linked but I don't speak itialyanese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big J Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Just read this entire thread from start to finish My brain now hurts so bad, I'm now off to the shed to fit the amal monoblocs off my deceased Golden Flash to the v11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Moto, any insight about the tuning link map that I posted? The WOT section is most interesting as it has the A:F ratios. I suppose if you had more data it would be more meaningful.Sorry it took me until now to respond. If we assume the "A/F ratio" graph actually shows mixture strength, as well as that the graph should be relatively uniform for proper running, then, at first glance, the mixture strength in the graph appears to be "all over the place". Contrary to my earlier speculation, the DynoJet patents for "Autotuning" imply that all tuning is done in steady state and that the computer either hunts around until the correct "A/F ratio" is achieved at a given throttle position/rpm, or, it records the "A/F ratio" and performs a calculation that will yield the theoretical offset required to hit the desired "A/F ratio" target. The chart you posted looks like an inertia run. The first thing I wonder is why, if the tuning is done steady state, is the graph you have not from a steady state run? Is it possible that a steady state run would show the desired "A/F ratio" across the board, and that we are simply looking at some type of response time related issue? Or maybe the "Autotuning" was done by the latter method, and that offset the computer calculated simply didn't translate to the real world? Maybe the operator knew that the engine runs better at what , in places, seems to be an unreasonable "A/F ratio"? Can you asked him/her about any of this? I would be curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Can you asked him/her about any of this? I would be curious... 43382[/snapback] I had it dyno'd well over a year ago, and they were not responsive to my email, so I am not going to ask them unless I go back for another run. I asked them about the pinging, and they said they made it richer, even though the numbers indicate they made it leaner. However the A:F graph shows richer moving to leaner within the ping zone. If you shifted most of the numbers up 1000 RPM it kind of matches the A:F graph, so maybe it has something to do with a delay or the effect of an inertia run. Would an inertia run give higher HP numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I had it dyno'd well over a year ago, and they were not responsive to my email, so I am not going to ask them unless I go back for another run.Why would you go back if they won't even deign to communicate with you?If you shifted most of the numbers up 1000 RPM it kind of matches the A:F graph, so maybe it has something to do with a delay or the effect of an inertia run.Except that I'm not convinced that the amount of time required for a stable reading is the same at every throttle position/rpm. Would an inertia run give higher HP numbers?Not by merits of being an inertia run per se, but certainly by merits of being a DynoJet inertia run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebulon Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I had another question how much do those Supertwins cost?. I really like the blue one how much better do they perform for you? is it entirely hand made or are there possible other units planned for the future? I tried looking at the website you have linked but I don't speak itialyanese 43267[/snapback] My Supertwin is a unique prototype with the 4v engine & special parts but there is the 2v supertwin product by ghezzi&brian A supertwin cost around 17000 eur or more depends of the option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeBenGuzzi Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 CHEEZE AND RICE, 17000 euro at the current exchange rate and with the way things are going by my calculations.... one sec.. thats damn near a million dollars. Well might as well be. I really like what youve done with that prototype of yours a true original. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Why would you go back if they won't even deign to communicate with you? 43420[/snapback] Good question. These guys have more experience with V11s than most of the SoCal tuning link tuners. And they were cheap. US $200. The local competition has a bad rap from the PCIII using Guzzi owners that I have talked to. Evoluzione is not a tuning link user, but he has an excellent reputation. If he offers a I might also consider GP or Aprillia/Ducati of Oceanside for dyno runs, but I don't know if they do re-mapping. And as far as I know, you are the only one in California who advertises using tuneboy, so if I go that route you may get my business if you are flexible enough to do a less thorough job than you seem to recommend. You may be worth the 500mile drive. Evoluzione is probably over 100 miles away. Your pricing seems to indicate that you are open to the, you get what you pay for, price plan. An analysis of the map, and optimizing maybe ten or twenty cells may be affordable to my budget. The Guzzi has a much smaller map than an Aprillia, so I am sure the map would be more affordable. And with the development of real time tuning in Tuneboy, you should be pretty efficient at remapping. At the very least, thanks for all the excellent free advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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