Ryland3210 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I have a brand new Cafe Sport supposedly came with a new battery. It's been ridden once since I took delivery at the end of December, about 80 miles, then stored for the past two months. When I went to recharge the battery, I was astounded to see the battery is installed laying down! I noticed a pool of acid in the plastic tray under it. I truly dislike the whole idea. With the plates horizontal, the debris that flakes off over time will not fall to the bottom, but instead have a better chance of draining the battery and shortening its life. On top of that, the idea of dripping battery acid on the bike's innards makes me cringe. Is this something I'm going have to keep on top of forever, or is the battery defective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badmotogoozer Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 You shouldn't have a "wet" battery in there. It should have a "gel cell" sealed lead acid. This type has a jelly acid not a liquid and can therefore be quite happy on its side. If you can physically open your battery and there is fluid in it, you'll want to replace it with the correct battery (can be found via quick search on this forum). A cracked batt will also warrant replacement. cheers, Rj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I have not heard of one of these batteries leaking before this. They are sealed gel cells and should never leak. You must take this to your dealer for warranty. I hope nothing has been damaged. These batteries are constructed to be mounted horizontally so don't worry about the internals. There is also a thread here somewhere about an orange battery that is highly regarded as a replacement. I can't remember the name but I will be looking for one when the time comes for my bike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 You shouldn't have a "wet" battery in there. It should have a "gel cell" sealed lead acid. This type has a jelly acid not a liquid and can therefore be quite happy on its side. If you can physically open your battery and there is fluid in it, you'll want to replace it with the correct battery (can be found via quick search on this forum). A cracked batt will also warrant replacement. cheers, Rj 82926[/snapback] Ryan is right. The battery installed should be sealed with no caps or plugs leading to the cells. If your bike has a wet battery installed then your dealer/seller has a lot of explaining to do!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 They're not even gell cells. They're a "starved electrolyte" construction with damp paper between the plates. The U.S. Post Office classifies them as "dry cells" and they're allowed to be shipped through the mail without any special handling. That said, yes, they can leak. My very first Hawker Odyssey started leaking around the terminals after I wrenched on it a bit too hard. My second leaked after it got too much pressure on the case (horizontally mounted on its side in a Sport 1100i) because the owners manual I had under the battery strap transferred the weight of my wife riding pillion directly to the case and the case separated (my wife won't ride on it anymore anyway, so that problem will not arise again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helicopterjim R.I.P. Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Whatever it is, being a brand new bike, then the warranty should cover it unless the fine print says batteries excluded. Any warranty expert out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 What does your battery look like? What is it called? I've seen this type of battery case deform, but never leak. Can you see the battery itself leaking? Is it definitely a pool of battery acid? Certainly sounds like you have the wrong type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emason Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 The original battery in '00 V11 Sport was a Hawker. It started leaking after about 5 years. I took it out and put in my SP. Works great. Put a new Odyssey in the V11 and everything is peachy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 The original battery in '00 V11 Sport was a Hawker. It started leaking after about 5 years. I took it out and put in my SP. Works great. Put a new Odyssey in the V11 and everything is peachy. 83449[/snapback] The original should have been a Spark 500. (Probably a Hawker Genesis in disguise) The Hawker Odyssey (the orange one that Jim mentions) is superior. Yuasa also makes a good sealed battery for our bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 What does your battery look like? What is it called?I've seen this type of battery case deform, but never leak. Can you see the battery itself leaking? Is it definitely a pool of battery acid? Certainly sounds like you have the wrong type. 83010[/snapback] More info from a friendly and knowledgable local dealer: According to the local dealer (not the one that sold me the bike), the Yuasa YTX15L-BS battery, although a sealed type, is not the type supplied with the bike. It is not a "dry" cell. Instead it is filled with electrolyte upon installation. I brought the battery to the local dealer to inspect. It is an aftermarket type, most likely installed by the dealer because it was an '04 leftover and the original battery was either not charged properly and went dead. It's probable the battery was filled with electrolyte and quick charged. Even if it survived that, if the battery was only partly charged, the next time the bike was run, the high charging current from the bike's alternator would have vastly exceeded the 1.3 amp charging current specified in bold print on the battery's label. The buildup of heat and pressure resulting accounts for the leak. Prior to use, these batteries should be slow charged, which can take a day or more. If the dealer is in a hurry, or jump starts the bike, these kinds of problem can result. The slow charge is also necessary for the liquid electrolyte to turn into a gel. According to him the Odyssey dry cell batteries require as much as 2-3 days to fully charge initially, but then are trouble free for many years. Eight or more is not unusual. Most importantly, he says Moto Guzzi put out a service bulletin to use Odyssey dry cells when a battery needs replacement. It appears the PC 545 or PC 545MJ both fit my Cafe Sport. The MJ refers to the orange metal jacket enclosing the battery. Evidently the MJ version is for under seat locations. Selling prices range from $78.88 to 99.99 on the web. I now will persuade the dealer that sold me the bike to supply an Odyssey replacement. I will ask him to ship it to me uncharged so I can take my time and do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 The MJ refers to the orange metal jacket enclosing the battery. Evidently the MJ version is for under seat locations. Selling prices range from $78.88 to 99.99 on the web. I now will persuade the dealer that sold me the bike to supply an Odyssey replacement. I will ask him to ship it to me uncharged so I can take my time and do it right. 85025[/snapback] The Metal Jacket is supposed to be for heat resistance..I suppose to keep the plastic from rupturing due to heat expansion....but the weight passing through the seat sounds like a second good reason....but keep in mind it allows for less room between seat and pressure on the battery. I don't know which is better But I do know this is a good place to get the Odyssey http://www.portablepower.com/items/search/SLA/1/all/pc545 They shipped it fully charged, or atleast the voltage was over 12.8V 12.84V is 100% charged on the Hawker batteries. So, you might not get a chance to do the charging yourself. They also sell the Odyssey Opimizer. http://www.portablepower.com/items/batteri.../CH301/34S201S2 FWIW I started having trouble with my voltage regulator last Oct, Nov, Dec??? The regulator was definitely bad and was replaced, but I still have charging problems. The battery will not hold a charge for long and the Odyssey Optimizer only brings it up to 12.6xVolts I suspect the bad alternator may have killed the battery, or it could be the other way around <_>The other possibility is that I charged the battery with a 2Amp automotive charger which may have weakened the battery even though I kept the charging rate below 15V... It is a good battery, but it is more sensitive to abuse than conventional batteries. Therefore I highly recommend the Xenotronix Odyssey Optimizer model SX90-1...as expensive as it is. To make charging easy, it comes with a quick connect cable that bolts to the battery terminals, so that charging is a easy as just quick connecting and waiting. I have been getting by for two months like this, but now it is time for a new battery, before I kill the charging system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grossohc Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Prior to use, these batteries should be slow charged, which can take a day or more. If the dealer is in a hurry, or jump starts the bike, these kinds of problem can result. The slow charge is also necessary for the liquid electrolyte to turn into a gel. According to him the Odyssey dry cell batteries require as much as 2-3 days to fully charge initially, but then are trouble free for many years. Eight or more is not unusual. Most importantly, he says Moto Guzzi put out a service bulletin to use Odyssey dry cells when a battery needs replacement. It appears the PC 545 or PC 545MJ both fit my Cafe Sport. The MJ refers to the orange metal jacket enclosing the battery. Evidently the MJ version is for under seat locations. Selling prices range from $78.88 to 99.99 on the web. 85025[/snapback] Just about to order one of these batteries, so i will connect it to my optimate for a couple of days before use, thanks for the tip. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Just about to order one of these batteries, so i will connect it to my optimate for a couple of days before use, thanks for the tip. Gary 85034[/snapback] Be sure to read the instructions that come with the battery. If you have the AccuMate PRO 12V 7A-S Odyssey charger, you should be safe to charge it for days, but basically you just need to get it up so that it maintains more than 12.80V. Actually the instructions say, "Measure the battery voltage; if it is 12.65V or greater, install, if less, then refer to the charging section" But I would charge it if it is less than 12.80, but only with the currently recommended chargers: TecMate AccuMate Pro 12V-7A-S Motion Pro Inc. 650-594-9600 (aka optimate) http://www.batterymart.com/p-ACC-12V7A-S.html $86.95++ Xenotronix SX 90-1 12V, 6A Xenotronix 800-624-9366 (aka Odyssey Optimiser) http://www.gotbatteries.com/items.asp?para.../CH301/34S201S2 $99.95++ Motocell™ 693601 12V, 3A Custom Chrome 800-729-3332 Battery Defender ACC-1206WB 12V, 3A BatteryMart.com 800-405-2121 Also Hawker??? is developing an Odyssey Ultimizer to be released second quarter 2006...see http://www.odysseyfactory.com/ Warning, Hawker previously, but no longer recommend Deltran's line of chargers and vice versa http://www.batterytender.com/notice_odysse...f093b029480870a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland3210 Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 The Metal Jacket is supposed to be for heat resistance..I suppose to keep the plastic from rupturing due to heat expansion....but the weight passing through the seat sounds like a second good reason....but keep in mind it allows for less room between seat and pressure on the battery.I don't know which is better But I do know this is a good place to get the Odyssey http://www.portablepower.com/items/search/SLA/1/all/pc545 They shipped it fully charged, or atleast the voltage was over 12.8V 12.84V is 100% charged on the Hawker batteries. So, you might not get a chance to do the charging yourself. They also sell the Odyssey Opimizer. http://www.portablepower.com/items/batteri.../CH301/34S201S2 FWIW I started having trouble with my voltage regulator last Oct, Nov, Dec??? The regulator was definitely bad and was replaced, but I still have charging problems. The battery will not hold a charge for long and the Odyssey Optimizer only brings it up to 12.6xVolts I suspect the bad alternator may have killed the battery, or it could be the other way around <_>The other possibility is that I charged the battery with a 2Amp automotive charger which may have weakened the battery even though I kept the charging rate below 15V... It is a good battery, but it is more sensitive to abuse than conventional batteries. Therefore I highly recommend the Xenotronix Odyssey Optimizer model SX90-1...as expensive as it is. To make charging easy, it comes with a quick connect cable that bolts to the battery terminals, so that charging is a easy as just quick connecting and waiting. I have been getting by for two months like this, but now it is time for a new battery, before I kill the charging system 85033[/snapback] In theory, the chemistry (lead-sulfuric acid in this case) and temperature governs the optimum charging voltage regardless of battery construction. I luckilly have access to high precision Hewlett Packard power supplies, so I plan on setting the voltage limit according to my Yamaha Venture's detailed battery charging chart, and the current limit a little lower than the battery's specified charging current. A web search under Odyssey Batteries found several sources for me. According to Odyssey's website, the width (vertical thickness under the seat) of the battery is the same for metal jacket and non-metal jacket, so I'm going for the extra protection of the PC 545 MJ. If you look at the picture, that makes sense, because the orange metal jacket fits just under the battery's plastic flange. I'm happy to say the dealer's new service manager seems enthusiastic to help. He actually asked me what battery was in the bike, and which battery was the correct one. So far, so good. Thanks, guys, for all the helpful information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaing Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 A web search under Odyssey Batteries found several sources for me.According to Odyssey's website, the width (vertical thickness under the seat) of the battery is the same for metal jacket and non-metal jacket, so I'm going for the extra protection of the PC 545 MJ. If you look at the picture, that makes sense, because the orange metal jacket fits just under the battery's plastic flange. 85166[/snapback] I think they made a typo...still it may be fine...just put some cardboard or plasticene on top of the battery and see if it gets crushed when you sit on it. From http://www.portablepower.com/items/search/SLA/1/all/pc545 Non-MJ Click for image of PC545 Dimensions: 6.91" L x 3.28" W x 5.11" H Weight: 10.8 Pound(s) MJ Click for image of PC545MJ Dimensions: 7" L x 3.37" W x 5.17" H Weight: 12.6 Pound(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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