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Frozen Pan on my EV


LowRyter
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I'm just sick over this.  I was doing the service on my '98 EV and couldn't get the pan and spacer off the bike to change the filter.  I even tried socking it with a light mallet.   

The situation is that when the oil pump was replaced year or so ago, the tech used gasket sealer.  Why he did it, I don't know.  The tech no longer works there.  Don, the shop owner reassures me that he can get it off.   Since I was planning to drop the pan, I didn't warm up the engine- I'm not sure if that would've mattered.  

I'll probably ride around awhile since the oil is fresh.  I'd be interested for any thoughts, recommendations or warnings.  I have to wonder if the bike is totaled? 

After the tune up, it runs strong other than 2-3rd gear grind.  Dis side intake valve was tight and the exhaust was loose.  Normally I'd post on WG but it's too toxic for my participation right now.

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Did you get the 10mm capscrews out from the center of the bottom?

That one tripped me up last time, even though I knew they were there once discovered and reminded.

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1 hour ago, Pressureangle said:

Did you get the 10mm capscrews out from the center of the bottom?

That one tripped me up last time, even though I knew they were there once discovered and reminded.

yes.

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Does anyone know what *kind* of sealer he used? I'm not sure even that matters. If you've made certain there's nothing mechanical holding it, the only thing left is the mallet. If there's a clean protruding edge somewhere you can get at with a piece of aluminum flat stock you can attack a corner or side that way without digging too much of the pan material off. 

As a last resort, and I hate even to suggest it, you might take a cylinder and piston off and see if you can get a piece of hardwood dowel down through the crank and oil stuff to strike it inside the pan. Not a happy thought, nor a guarantee of success. 

A long time ago, working at a bicycle shop, I was threatening a new carbon fiber swingarm while fishing through a lost cable. The boss said, "You've broken more expensive stuff than this, haven't you?"  
I laughed, because he was right. 

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I don't suppose that heavy fishing line might saw through the gasket?  It will be interesting to see what & how it will be done.    More worrisome than interesting.  

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22 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

I don't suppose that heavy fishing line might saw through the gasket?  It will be interesting to what will b done.    More worrisome than interesting.  

Hm. I did see an old guy carefully drive a utility knife blade into a gasket to start to separate the parts. A new blade and a light touch is worth a try, I suppose. 

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Make SURE you have EVERY bolt out of the pan before you try removing the pan . Get under the bike and verify all the bolts/capscrews or whatever you want to call them are out of the pan .

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The very first time I dropped the sump on my new to me CalVin, I had a h*ll of a time. It had been sealed so heavily with orange RTV? when I finally got it off, at first I thought it was some type of silicon gasket. Then I connected the dots and realized it was the cleaning job from hell. lol

 Even with gentle taps with a plastic/rubber mallet, I know how fragile those thin cooling fins are, btdt, so I'd try other means to apply pressure.

Is it possible to fashion and jam a big wood wedge in to place downward force on top of the drain plug at the back? Or put a socket on it and give it a few good wacks back and forth, forwards etc.

If you had a slide hammer, with a hooked tip onto a socket or  perhaps a big loop of heavy fishing line over the drain plug putting a downward/sideways force might break the seal.

If it's not a painted sump and plain metal, a gentle torch or heat gun to soften things up might help.

Can you tell the color of the sealant used to get an idea of the temp required to loosen it?

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6 minutes ago, gstallons said:

Make SURE you have EVERY bolt out of the pan before you try removing the pan . Get under the bike and verify all the bolts/capscrews or whatever you want to call them are out of the pan .

It's a square-pan engine, right? Not wide sump? If so there are 4 hex bolts in the bottom, 3 in front & rear, 4 on each side. 
Even with Permatex hard gasket sealer, it shouldn't be so tight- even if so it should tear the gasket in half. Still confused.

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5 minutes ago, 80CX100 said:

The very first time I dropped the sump on my new to me CalVin, I had a h*ll of a time. It had been sealed so heavily with orange RTV? when I finally got it off, at first I thought it was some type of silicon gasket. Then I connected the dots and realized it was the cleaning job from hell. lol

 Even with gentle taps with a plastic/rubber mallet, I know how fragile those thin cooling fins are, btdt, so I'd try other means to apply pressure.

Is it possible to fashion and jam a big wood wedge in to place downward force on top of the drain plug at the back? Or put a socket on it and give it a few good wacks back and forth, forwards etc.

If you had a slide hammer, with a hooked tip onto a socket or  perhaps a big loop of heavy fishing line over the drain plug putting a downward/sideways force might break the seal.

If it's not a painted sump and plain metal, a gentle torch or heat gun to soften things up might help.

Can you tell the color of the sealant used to get an idea of the temp required to loosen it?

I couldn't see any sealant when I was trying to remove the pan.  Only the paper gasket.  I'm not the one that's going to try again.  But advice  is appreciated.  

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3 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

It's a square-pan engine, right? Not wide sump? If so there are 4 hex bolts in the bottom, 3 in front & rear, 4 on each side. 
Even with Permatex hard gasket sealer, it shouldn't be so tight- even if so it should tear the gasket in half. Still confused.

So am I.

The bolts were all off, I couldn't see any sealant from the sides but it feels like it's welded on.

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Well, with all that in the background, I'd ride it through the summer and worry over it when season is over. 
There's a strong argument that changing oil filters isn't necessary with every oil change; theoretically, if your engine never creates a piece of debris bigger than the holes in the filter, the filter does no thing atall anyway. Particularly since gravity doesn't make the filter a collection point, I would just button it up and enjoy it. 

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PA- I never change filters for every change.  I usually change the oil at 3k intervals and at 9k I do the full service of fluids, filter and valve adjustment.  I'm riding it for a while but I expect to shop to fix their problem.  Same for the Sport too.

 If they were simple access filters, I'd change it at every oil change. 

 

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3 hours ago, 80CX100 said:

The very first time I dropped the sump on my new to me CalVin, I had a h*ll of a time. It had been sealed so heavily with orange RTV? when I finally got it off, at first I thought it was some type of silicon gasket. Then I connected the dots and realized it was the cleaning job from hell. lol

 Even with gentle taps with a plastic/rubber mallet, I know how fragile those thin cooling fins are, btdt, so I'd try other means to apply pressure.

Is it possible to fashion and jam a big wood wedge in to place downward force on top of the drain plug at the back? Or put a socket on it and give it a few good wacks back and forth, forwards etc.

If you had a slide hammer, with a hooked tip onto a socket or  perhaps a big loop of heavy fishing line over the drain plug putting a downward/sideways force might break the seal.

If it's not a painted sump and plain metal, a gentle torch or heat gun to soften things up might help.

Can you tell the color of the sealant used to get an idea of the temp required to loosen it?

Good suggestions there. An electric heat gun can slowly heat the pan to 100-120°C without causing any damage. Remember that it gets to that temperature normally on a hot day in slow traffic. An infrared thermometer lets you check. It will take a while,as the castings are very thermally conductive, so you will be heating the crank case too. The heat softens most sealants and glues. Then gradual force from wood or plastic wedges can progressively open gaps for more wedges.

BTW, thanks @docc for keeping this forum from going toxic. The world needs good moderators.

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9 hours ago, Pressureangle said:

It's a square-pan engine, right? Not wide sump? If so there are 4 hex bolts in the bottom, 3 in front & rear, 4 on each side. 
Even with Permatex hard gasket sealer, it shouldn't be so tight- even if so it should tear the gasket in half. Still confused.

It works for any MG . You just do not want to leave any fasteners in the pan when trying to loosen / remove it .

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