Tinus89

I can't imagine it being the timing chain, as the bike runs perfectly fine when cold or warm (anything aside from "hot" really. The spark plugs look perfect and equal. It does not seem to be running rich or lean, until she stumbles. Then (of course) she smells of petrol. I will retry with the oil temp sensor and fuse #3 unplugged, and I will inspect the cam position sensor. Questions: - is fuse #3 the 30A fuse? - is there any way (except for distance) to check the cam position sensor?

The regulator gives me about 14.35v with no load. When the issue occurs, my thought would be that an overvoltage would occur, causing the ecu to switch off. I checked the coils, they measured out fine, plus I cannot imagine them both failing together, as both cylinders have the misfires.

So when she started stalling again, I had the same thought. Hooked up Guzzidiag and while very slowly increasing throttle until the moment she fails again, looking at TPS voltage and degrees translation as well. I even looked at the pre-ignition value while doing this, but none of them showed any jumps or numbers out of the ordinary. Questions: - if the regulator would be the source, can I measure that with an ordinary multimeter, or would that not pick up any spikes? Do I require to use a scope? - aside from regulator/TPS/timing sensor, are there any other possible culprits? Could it be mechanical? Related to the rattle?

Yes, I both visually checked and using some brake cleaner while running (no rise in rpm). They are quite soft and in rather good condition.

I did a "stress-test". Here is what I did: - 23deg C outside. - Went for a 20min drive to get her hot and returned home. Let her idle about 4 min, drive around the block (2min). Nothing. Let her idle another 2-3min and go again, immediate failure (coughing, popping in exhaust). Closing the throttle immediately kept her running idle. - Put her inside and hooked up multimeter. Rev until she died (~2500rpm), voltage does not go above 13.3v with headlight on. Felt ECU, battery and relays: all not hot. - Hooked up Guzzidiag and started her again several times, checking TPS voltage, percentage and pre-ignition. Nothing strange happens when I slowly increase revs. She just dies. Here is a video of me very slowly increasing throttle: (also note the clear metallic rattle still present as described in http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19627) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnTi_vtetIM Any ideas? Cam position sensor? TPS?

This will have to wait until monday... Then I can print the schematic in A3 format at work and follow the lines - impossible on the screen. MartyNZ - Interesting read! But if boiling starts at 40deg C, does that mean the fuel composition is different in e.g. African countries, because heat can rise up to and above 40deg?

So, update: - Reset valves to 0.15 and 0.20. Right side is louder then left, but still acceptable. She revs better and sounds louder (=better ). - Replaced 30A fuse holder for a new one rated to 35A, with a new 30A fuse. - Re-routed fuel line away from cylinder. - Installed new fuel pump manufactured by NASA: Just kidding . Covered the intake line and fuel pump in reflective aluminium taping.I could not get my hands on anything better and this will at least do a good job at keeping out the heat... The idea behind only doing intake line and pump, is that after the pump the pressure will be higher (~3bar), so the evaporation point goes up significantly.

Is there any way to check the plugs? Measure resistance? I've ensured they are properly gapped, they are in good condition and equally colored as well. I've checked all relay base connections one by one after I squeezed them together one by one again. I am worried about what you just described on the regulator, as this really resembles the behavior I am getting. I know it should do 13.8-14.4v at 3k rpm, but could we agree what the max should be at 6k rpm? Then I can check that. I will relocate the fuel line which is close to the cylinder and see if I can source anything close to that to put around it here in the NL. So, in short, my plan of action: - Relocate and if possible isolate fuel line. - Reinstall fuel tank and warm up bike. - Rev at 3k and 6k rpm to check voltage. - Drive, with special focus on getting the bike hot (warming her up in 15min, then letting her idle outside for say.... 10min? Is that too long? I want to prevent overheating...). Then drive again (close to home) to see if the issue returns. - Maybe when she is really hot, again measure at 3k and 6k rpm? If she does fail again, bring her home, and again measure voltage when she cuts out. Would you say a normal multimeter would suffice, or would that not be able to pick up the spikes in voltage? I want to be prepared.

I just can't imagine it boiling the fuel with 23deg C outside... And also not while doing 80kmh (which is when it happened as well). I dont feel like relocating the pump all the way forward. Not just because of the added work, but also because it puts it in a more exposed place, where rain can get to it easily. What's the other people's feel for this? Just relocate the line close to the cylinder (on the pic in my hand) and replace the fuse, reinstall the tank and give it a retry? Blame it on either the fuse or the tight valves? Or relocate the pump? Or is there anymore to explore?

From what you describe, it seems like there might be several problems. Once you have retorqued the heads and reset the valve clearances, it will be a little better. Then comes fuel heating. Vapour lock explains your symptoms. Perhaps the area under the tank is acting as a little heat trap. Normally there is insulating panels on the lower surfaces of the tank to limit engine heat reaching the fuel inside. This tells us that it gets hot under there. If you try moving the pump away from this area, back to its original location, or above the oil cooler, then it may be better. Insulating the low pressure fuel hose and the pump is still useful. I see that you have pod filters. What have you done with the temp sensor that was in the air box? It is important, and so is its location. See previous posts here: http://www.v11lemans...e=1?do=findComment&comment=218202 and http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19764&hl= The ECU cannot set the mixture correctly if the air inlet temp sensor is missing or located in a bad place. I had already retorqued the heads and reset the valve clearances, but it seems that the gaskets have compressed more afterwards... Would you say that underneath the spine would be a better location for the pump? The temp sensor I have relocated to underneath the seat, all the way near the fuse box.

It could be wrong, but I can't imagine that causing such a sudden effect (and otherwise perfect running). She does not sneeze/pop or whatsoever, until she suddenly does. I don't have a CO meter/gas analyzer to check it though... Nope, I had reset it a month ago and it still is where I left it. She is decently tuned. Also, if the above are wrong, would that not cause issues all the time instead of suddenly? Also, when she starts acting up, it is a complete loss of power. When I keep the throttle open, she surges hugely, from no power to all power in seconds. Update: - Checked coils: no cracks. Measured them: 3.0 Ohm and 1.0 Ohm. Measured spark plug leads with 90deg caps on: both 5.8kOhm. I would say that should be OK. Finding 1: - Checked valves: they were too tight! Right were around (I/O) 0.10/0.18 and left (I/O) 0.06/0.10mm. Could that really be the issue? Apparently the gaskets compress more after the rebuild than I anticipated. I would guess that after re-torquing the heads it should be done, but it wasn't. Finding 2: - My intake fuel line is located quite close to the left cylinder. See also this picture: Could that be the issue? It has never played up before... I had relocated the fuel pump to above the spine already as you can see. Finding 3: - My 30 amp fuse has been rather warm... Following this: I have noticed my indicators becoming quite fast on the highway (>4.5k rpm). Could the regulator becoming faulty? How do I check it? What voltage should it do at 3k rpm and what at 5k rpm?

If you read through the spine raid report I posted yesterday, I dealt with that the whole trip. The issue was the CO trim set too lean. What is your's set at? Mine's set at 10 (and never has been different in the last two years)

Thanks for all the responses! This proves how great this forum is:). Breather is fine, it's not tank suck (I checked). Replaced the fuel filter 3000km ago. I have done the valves about 500km ago, after re-torqueing the heads (paper foot gasket). But as it is so easy, I will check again! Do you mean the connections on the pump itself? Because I checked those. If there are other connections somewhere in that line, let me know. As above, fuel filter is fresh and connections on the pump OK. Are there other? Fuel lines are as they have been for 2 years: router far away from the heads (and I have driven way hotter days ánd it happened while doing 80kmh for at least 4-5min straight, so I don't suspect heat to be the issue. I have a manual petcock and ruled out tank suck. All rubbers are in prestine condition. I had set the valves to .18 and .22 mm, but I will check again! Ignition leads are free of damage and corrosion. Are the coils one or two separate ones? Because it happens on both cilinders at the same time. I will visually check the coils for cracks and check the wire loom connection. Is it one connection or more? Which connection on the wireloom side do I use for testing the 3ohm resistance? So in short, I will do this and get back to you: - Check valve clearance - Check coils and measure resistance of coils and leads/plugs. One important note: when I said backfiring, I meant popping in the exhaust. I will edit that in my previous post. It only backfires when I stay on the trottle when it starts surging (because I can't stop there for example. But mainly it pops in the exhaust, not back into the injector housing.

So, update: I REALLY need your help guys! Here is what I did: - Livin easy test: negative. So I replaced the relays #1 and #5 with high current Omrons. - Clamped all relay connectors so the relays make proper contact. Reinstalled relays with vaseline. - Visually inspect all wiring and check all connectors - Readout errors: injection relay error. Deleted error. - Bypassed sidestand switch. - Checked/cleaned ignition switch. - Installed Go Winky light on fuel petcock line. I went for a drive, 18deg C outside. Drove for about an hour, stopped for 2 min with running engine, drove again. Then she started surging/backfiring popping in the exhaust again. Findings: - Go winky light stays lit solidly. - When I pull the clutch as soon as she surges and close throttle, she idles like nothing happened. When I open the trottle again (2-3k rpm, no load) she starts backfiring popping into the exhaust and eventually dies. - No errors now using GuzziDiag. - Wiggling the relays doesn't affect the running. ANY ideas? I'm lost... Please help!

Did the Livin' Easy -test on relay #1 on my 2001 V11 Mandello Rosso (not the Limited Edition) and.... It is not living the easy life! So I replaced the relay with a high current one.

Update: I found a supplier that has more capable relays in the country! However, for now he only has two on stock. So, aside from the relay that obviously got hot, which should I replace with a heavier one? Which suffer the worst loads?

AGM is Absorbed Glass Mat, a type of battery. Yuasa is a brand. Your's is a Yuasa AGM. Do you not have a charger? You will need to get the battery charged at some point. Right. I genuinely feel stupid . Yes I have a charger and will charge it when I leave the bike for longer then a month. Last winter, sitting idle for over a month in a cold shed (-5 to 5deg C), she started up like it was summer.

I did not find a hot wire, only a hot relay. Checked all wiring, found nothing out of the ordinary. Will jumper out the sidestand switch indeed. But could that cause extremely poor running? Would it just not start at all? What's a Go Winkie light? EDIT: Found the topic, reading it now You are looking at the right rear top gearbox mount. The one that cracks more often (but I think usually on the left). Look here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19792&page=3&hl=%2Bcase+%2Bcrack&do=findComment&comment=217546 http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19814&hl=%20case%20%20crack In the above picture, the red arrow points to the area ground down. The green circle is where the oil accumulates, the orange circle is where they crack more often. I have a Rosso, but not the limited edition. Mine does not have the extra frame support, not even the bracket on the frame to bolt it to. This is not an AGM battery, but a Yuasa. Keep in mind, this voltage is after a number of starts without long running, and putting it on ignition for a while. I may have to get higher rated relays then, but could that cause the problem? After the initial failure, I moved all relays one position, which did not solve the problem.

Soooo.... I checked all wiring, special attention to the small ground from the regulator, all fine. No connections stressed or something. So, the only thing I have left is the sidestand switch I changed out. Might that be it? Battery voltage using a multimeter is 12.67v. My relays are these: http://dpguzzi.com/relay.htm Also.... I found something else SERIOUSLY worrying: oil on top of my gearbox, near the known to crack support. I am not 100% sure it is cracked, but cannot find any other source for the oil (which I have seen there before and cleaned off a number of times). Scratched the coating, this is the result:

GuzziDiag said 12.44V yesterday with ignition on. I will check today with ignition off using a multimeter.

Ok, so I did the above which are commented, the rest will be done tomorrow. I found one thing out of the ordinary with the relay boxes: one relay had clearly been hot on the contact, which leads to a thick black/red wire. It was the second from the tail of the bike for me, but you can easily swap the last two boxes around. Does anyone know (based on the wire color) what relay that is? Pic:

Ha, that was my topic! Your sound is completely different from mine Scud. It might not sound like that on the video, but it really is. The sound does not sound very good. I would not suspect a low oil pressure to be the cause.... What I would check (if valve clearance really is correct): - Pushrod ends for being loose (easy to get to) - Valve guide play (radial play on valve stems) - Valve springs for breaks - Play in rockers on shaft (are the springs in good condition?)

Don't forget Czakky's comment about the key switch. The ignition switch soldered joints to the wiring can break, but still touch, making an intermittent connection. Vibrations could make or break the connection.See:http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18953 and http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18606 Good point. Did not know there were so many owners with problems there! Added to my last post.

Thanks for the responses! Tonight I finally have time to take a look at it... My plan of attach is (open for comments!): - Check for errors using GuzziDiag - Check ignition lock wiring - Remove fuel tank - Check all wiring, special attention to main ground lead (measure resistance) and wires around regulator. - Replace tank. - Check all fuse box wiring on bottom - Check all relay box wiring on bottom. Any suggestions/additions before tonight?

Battery type/age I would have to get back to you on, I only know it's a Yuasa and the age will remain a mystery (P.O.). Running voltage wás around 14v @3000rpm, but I will check again áfter the failure. Battery terminals are clean and tight and put together again 500km ago. What ignition switch? The key switch? Or the one near the throttle? I guess I could bypass it. It was replaced just before the ride! However, would that not cause it to not idle at all? Instead of rough and spitting and burping? Which exact cable should I look for to be loose? The one on the gearbox definitely is secure. Which wire will take over if there is a bad ground? Are the coils one system or two separate ones (can both fail at once or not?)