Kiwi_Roy

Are you sure it's the lamp, the switches are known to fail on a regular basis, short the switch terminal to ground to test the lamp. Here are some pictures, the first 4 show the assembly. There are brass inserts in the plastic which is split on mine but I am still able to take the screws out. Remove the back off the dash and pop out the lamp assembly so you can take off the clear plastic cover and filter to access the lamps. From memory I grabbed the brass insert with needle nose pliers from the rear (picture 4) while unscrewing the allen screws, they come out easy now. To remove the lamps once you get the cover off slip a little tubing over them, this allows you to grip the glass with needle nose pliers. You can also wiggle the rubber lamp holder out the back. http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/Kiwi_Roy/slideshow/Dash I highly recommend upgrading the lamps from incandescent to LEDs, they are much brighter. The lamp holder in picture 1 (from the V11 Sport) has been upgraded, at first I thought it would just be a simple replacement with type 74 lamps but the base on these short out the lamp-holder so the wires were soldered to the lamp as I show on the text page The later photos (5 - 10) I took while upgrading my V11 EV with type 194 LEDs, it's a nice winter project I JB Welded the LEDs into the plastic housing, and because there was no room for lamp-holders simply soldered the leads directly to the lamps (picture 8). The only one that's a bit special is the low fuel indicator, it needs to pass more current than the LED supplies so I just wired one of the original lamps in parallel and tucked it into the back of housing. Why not just use a resistor you may ask - incandescent lamps are a very special resistor because cold their resistance is very low so they provide near to full voltage to the thermistor type fuel sensor. I also get the oil light on dimly sometimes if it's raining, I could easily fix that by adding a bit of extra load but as it rarely rains in Vancouver I haven't bothered. The 194 lamps I used were 12V AC which was nice since I didn't have to worry about polarity. DC lamps will work also but you need some means of rectifying the signal for flashers. SuperbrightLEDs dot com is a good source of lamps if you are in Nth. America. http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/wedge-bulbs/194-led-bulb-1-led-wedge-base/197/ I used the 90 degree option. Make sure the LED colour matches the filter they are behind, unlike incandescent LEDs have a very narrow spectrum, if you use the wrong colour it won't show through the filter, in theory anyway Superbright also sell lamp-holders for the 194 but I found them too big for the space and they loose contact with the lamp if ther;s any tension on the wires.

Here's a partial diagram taken from the owners manual, I modified it a little just for clarity and to show how it really is. The first version shows the Normal path for the current returning from the starter to battery via the main ground Below that I show how the current diverts to the small regulator ground if the main ground works loose. If you look closely at the regulator on the bike you will see a small black wire going from one of the holding bolts, it goes all the way through the main loom to the battery Negative post, this is the small ground wire shown on the schematic (it bolts straight to the battery post not exactly as the schematic shows) The regulator is also grounded through being bolted to the horn bracket which in turn is bolted to the chassis. Picture 1 The wire that drops straight down from the battery on the drawing is the main ground, this on my bike ran direct from the battery post to the seat release bracket where it's sandwiched neatly between bracket and the gearbox held in place by a small Allen screw as shown. (I believe this is stock for North America) If the seat release bracket works loose over time it's possible for the main ground to break contact, now the ground path diverts to the small black wire from the regulator case to the battery. The normal starter current is about 150 Amps no problem for the main ground but too much for the small innocent looking black wire resulting in Voltage drop less current and weak cranking. Unfortunately a side effect of Voltage drop is heat, enough to cause this small wire to release it's magic smoke and a melt down in the loom if not a fire under the tank. There may be other alternate grounds which will suffer the same fate, I know of one bike where the tiny ECU ground had a similar melt down. It will only happen with a wire that's also grounded away from the battery post, accessories like heated gear are ok because they are isolated. Picture 2 If you leave the main ground where it is just make sure it's kept tight, I moved mine to an adjacent gearbox bolt where it's more secure and I can keep an eye on it. Picture 3 Here you can see the results of letting out the magic smoke as I described, this owner was fortunate the bike didn't completely self destruct. You can see the black wire insulation has completely gone and a spot on the small white wire where it burnt through BTW The ground connection from regulator to battery seems to be common to all Guzzis from 1998 to 2002. I suspect this wire was added to cure weak charging as the case to chassis joint corrodes. it doesn't do that well either, too much resistance.

I know of several bikes that have badly damaged the loom while cranking because of a bad main ground (battery negative) connection, I think this particular V11 with the ground under the seat lock is a likely candidate. If the main ground gets disconnected in some way the heavy starting current tries to find an alternate path back to battery negative. The obvious alternate path is the small black wire from the Voltage regulator case all the way through the main loom to the battery, a few seconds at starter current is all it takes to heat this enough to melt through the insulation of any wires it touches grounding them out. Other paths might be additional grounds added to headlight or accessories. The ECU also has a ground to the battery but I think it's isolated, see check below. How to avoid letting out the magic smoke Cut the black wire at the regulator and disconnect it at the battery. Connect the regulator chassis to an engine bolt with a short jumper, this will provide a better path back through the engine to the main ground, you might even notice an improvement in charging. Check for other ground paths by disconnecting the main ground wire. With the key on the bike should now appear dead, if it looks normal don't try cranking whatever you do, try to trace the wires and get back. I suggest wait a few days to see if there are points I missed before diving in

Battery or connections To eliminate the starter as a possible cause jumper from the solenoid small spade terminal to the battery Positive or the large hot terminal This should cause the solenoid to pull in as normal and start cranking. The solenoid pulls a fair bit of current so use a good size wire e.g. #16 Make contact with the spade connector first then touch the other end on Positive, that way less chance of an accidental short.

I think you run the risk of plugging the injectors, the filter is an aluminium can also under the tank.

Sorry, it won't fix itself, you need to do some testing. I suspect your bike must be wired with the solenoid through the ignition switch as per Note 1 in the sketch I posted further back. Next time it won't crank, flick the ignition switch a few times. If that doesn't fix it do the jumper trick from the large hot terminal to the spade connector, that should get it running or at the least will tell you where to look. Does the pump always prime for 2 seconds? Report back. I sent you a PM "Startus Interuptus" is a very common topic on a different Guzzi forum covering other models, my V11 Sport is wired without the solenoid going through the ignition switch so I haven't had that particular problem, sometimes the side-stand switch fails to make contact but then the pump doesn't prime either. (I know how to fix that but I quite like having the stand switch even though my other 3 Guzzis are without)

On the few occasions I have tried to use the damper, it's scared the ____ out of me when I try to steer at low speed. If they made a damper that cuts out below say 30 mph, then I might use it.

When you are installing the wheel be careful to get the washer (33) back in place otherwise it can drop down and jamb the bearing.

If you remember, a while back I measured the current drain on mine. Can't remember the exact figures now, but 40mA springs to mind, which dropped to about 4mA after fitting a relay to disconnect it when the ign is switched off. It's on a thread here somewhere. In practical terms, it meant the bike would just about turn over and start after about two weeks and when plugged into an optimate, would take a couple of hours to get back to full charge. Since the relay fitment, I can leave the bike 6 weeks plus, starts instantly with no sluggish turn over and if plugged into the optimate, only takes a few minutes to show fully charged. Adding a relay or some other means of disconnection for long term parking makes sense to me. I did remember to measure the Electrosport, it was just 3 milliamps, enough to discharge a battery over the winter so I disconnected the wire for the next 3 months. The Voltage sensing Black wire of a Ducati Energia draws about 15 milliamps, I'm sure that's why they wired it through the headlight relay.

No as the Voltage goes up the current reduced for a certain wattage Watts = Volts x Amps but as the Voltage is fixed by the battery to 12 Volts the current stays the same. Having said that often a switch contact has a higher current rating at a lower voltage I think the normal current would be about 5 Amps, let me look at the schematic. Are we talking V11 Sport? Most Guzzis including some V11 Sports pass the start solenoid current through the switch, that's about 40 - 50 Amps but only for about 1/10th of a second. If you want to use a smaller switch you could add a relay somewhere between the battery and the loads using that to switch the heavy current, the standard Guzzi relays are rated at 60 Amps from memory. The relay coils only draw 0.1 Amps I looked at my 02 manual, it's quite unusual in the starter solenoid is not through the switch, the biggest load is the direction indicators and that's only intermittent. If your switch is fed from a 10 amp fuse it's like mine, the start relay current bypasses the switch. the only steady current through it is the tail light, Electric petcock and a couple of relays, I think your 3 Amp switch will be fine. Since you won't have a park light you can just connect the wires from 2 & 4 (J & L) together and use a single pole switch. What was wrong with the original switch, they do need cleaning after 10 years at least mine did but A simplified schematic I based on the wiring of my V11, it doesn't show all the lighting detail, just the stuff that makes it run. Luigi got this one right IMHO, the heavy solenoid current (well over 40 Amps) goes through fuse 5, the relay and straight to the solenoid bypassing the switch. Fuse 5 also supplies the headlight, the other main load. The unusual feature of this wiring is the headlight current passes through 2 relays in series, other guzzis just switch the headlight relay coil with the start relay.

As chuck says, it could be the relay base but I always suspect the Ignition switch. Do the jumper test I mentioned first, If it cranks normally it's not the starter or solenoid. At 2002 the grease in your switch will be quite stiff for sure, it tends to hold the pressure off the contacts making them high resistance (mine was around 18 Ohms before I cleaned it, even 0.5 Ohms is too much if the solenoid relies on the switch). Wipe out the old grease, don't use harsh solvents and replace with fresh Vaseline. It's a sure sign of stiff grease if it starts once you wiggle the switch a few times, I think you said earlier you have eliminated the bullet connectors under the tank, You would not hear the start relay click if they were the problem. Also check the main ground where it attaches to the gearbox, mine is under the seat release bracket which is stupid. Another member here smoked the wiring loom because of a loose ground, the heavy starting current will try to find it's way back through the small ground wires attached to other items like the regulator. Here is a sketch explaining the heavy solenoid current. Read the note about the heavy current then study the schematic in your owners manual, follow the wiring back from the starter solenoid all the way to the battery looking for any weak points. I suggest you wire a small lamp from the spade terminal to chassis, tape it somewhere safe until you next experience starting issue, it will act like a crude Voltmeter, always available when it's needed. The lamp should glow at near full brightness with the appropriate cranking while the start button is pressed. If it fails to start a quick glance will give you a valuable clue as to where the problem lies. If it glows dimly, look to the bike wiring, if it glows at full brightness look to the starter. All this of course assumes you have a good battery, if the tail light goes out when you press start that's a clue you have battery or connection problems (the tail light uses a different contact in the ignition switch) BTW, If you measure the current going to the solenoid all you will measure is the 10 Amps going to the lighter coil because it drops too quick for the meter to pick up. I sometimes wonder if the factory is aware of the heavy coil because I haven't seen it on any of their schematics. The Bosch starter solenoids have the second coil also.

If the meter movement is still ok, I suspect it's fixable. The high voltage probably took out some sort of Voltage regulator on the 12V input. Put 12 Volts on the appropriate wires and see if you have voltage across the cylindrical black capacitor.

I do have a white faced tach I could send you, off my V11 Sport. The dial is a bit faded but you could swap parts. It has been open to paint the needle so the bezel ring is a bit graunched. I changed out the clocks for a pair from Speedhut. http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/Guzzi%20Dash/CIMG5019_zpsf8294390.jpg Send me a PM with your address if you need it.

So, the small connector is just the High Beam, Low Beam, Park & Ground I am having difficulty in understanding how a broken ground wire could cause such a problem - unless perhaps it was arcing to one of the other two coloured wires. How did you end up with 50 Volts at the headlight fuse that's what concerns me, if the battery is connected to the regulator output it should clamp the voltage down. (In an emergency I replaced my regulator with a rectifier (full alternator output to the battery) and even then the Voltage didn't go over about 17). The only way I can see 50 Volts is if it's the regulator output without the battery connected, a wire left off the battery terminal perhaps. The DE regulator sends the full alternator current pulses to the battery, it's not like a battery charger set to about 16 Volts, the battery is like a huge sink damping the pulses down, with no battery to suppress the Voltage pulses they will go sky high. I would just extend the wires from the other 4 pin connector at the steering head right into the bucket and crimp them to the headlight pigtails, this should still allow you to remove the headlight is you need to.

PM = Personal Message Up at the top of the page next to your handle (at least on my Mac) you should see a little envelope with a number in it Click on the envelope to see your personal messages. I need an e-mail address so I can send you some sketches.

Andy, Docc, What does that 4 pin connector go to? Mine doesn't have that. The black wire is probably a ground but I can't figure out how it could make the voltage on fuse so high. It's the weirdest problem I have seen yet and Guzzi have some dooseys

I looked at my schematic, i can see how it might happen. But without being able to see how yours is it's a shot in the dark. Another thing I would check carefully is where the main battery ground connects to the chassis, behind the seat release key bracket on mine, if that were intermittently disconnecting it might cause a problem for example the battery could remain at 12V but the ground might let the whole system float much higher if the Electrosport is directly connected to the battery it wouldn't see anything wrong except a low battery and crank up it's output. Describe how you have each of the electrosport wires (the battery ones) where do they go exactly Which model Electrosport? I'm sure it will turn out to be some silly little thing but luckily you haven't fried the ECU yet.

Something weird going on for sure, I suspect the full alternator output is getting into the headlight circuit bypassing the battery i.e. 50 Volts Is it possible the red wire from the regulator is connecting to the common point supplying the headlight fuse? but not going to Battery + The battery would normally clamp the voltage to a safe level even if it's getting overcharged (the voltage indicates it's not getting charged) Does the bike crank normally Has anyone added an extra fuse or modified the wiring in any way I think you said it has an electrosport Check the hot side of the headlight fuse has a good connection to battery +. If you grab the fuse holder and give it a sharp tug it will pop out in your hand so you can inspect the wires at the back. Make sure there's not a loose wire near the battery post, it's easy to miss one. A scan of your schematic would be a big help. (I moved the schematic to next post)

Andy, The ducati energia regulators rely on the headlight circuit being alive to make them work, with the key on you should see 12 Volts at the regulators Black wire. Unplug the two yellow wires, measure the ohms between the two sockets (from alternator), it should be close to zero, if it's open take the cover off and inspect where the wires attach to the coils Start the bike and measure the AC Volts between the two sockets it should be quite high at 3000 revs say 30-60 Volt range Get back, I'll send you a PM

Since posting the 2 relay schematic I have modified mine again to a single relay without diodes. This was done to appease the flakey Ducatti Energia regulator wiring, it likes to see the current passing through the original headlight relay. I have now scrapped that regulator for an Electrosport that could care less how the headlights wired. My bike wiring has the headlight current passing through the normally closed start relay contact as I show in the schematic, I think this may be quite unusual for a Guzzi, most just switch the headlight relay coil with the start relay.

Test the solenoid by jumping a wire from the large hot terminal to the small spade connector, this will bypass all the other wiring. Touch the terminals firmly because the current inrush is over 40 Amps Other Guzzis develop Startus Interuptus when the ignition switch builds up resistance, it's not so common with a V11 Sport but it may be yours is wired differently than mine. Swap out the start relay with one of the others. If it cranks with the solenoid but not with the start button then measure the Voltage at the spade connector while you press start and report back. Actually this V11 sport does have the high current passing through the ignition switch, my 2001 doesn't. If yours is like this my moneys on a dirty switch. Wiggle the switch and try again. http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_V11_Sport_Catalytic.gif (sorry the schematic has been removed, if you look at the sketch I posted further down the page I show a switch with note 1) updated Jan 10 2014 The problem usually occurs with age as the grease dries out, but you say since new, let's get to the bottom of it, look for a PM

To find a short without blowing a dozen fuse or more substitute a large 12V lamp for the fuse. Work your way around the bike wiggling all the wires, when you find the short the lamp will flash at full brightness. I use an old headlamp bulb with a couple of short wires soldered on, stuff the wires into the fuse socket. Since it's the headlight you are tracing the lamp will be on at half brightness until you find the short or you could remove the headlamp globe. I'm a little puzzled as to why the lamps are blowing but they do that sometimes if the connection is bad, the inrush current for a cold lamp is many times normal.

Don't go anywhere without the headlight working, if it's not chances are the battery is not getting charged because the regulator relies on the headlight circuit to make it work (the Ducati Energia one) Try unplugging the 4 pin connector below the headlight relay bucket, see if the fuse still blows. Unplug the regulator black and white wire, see if it blows. The headlight circuit also powers the stop light, if the fuse doesn't blow straight away I would start looking in that area. It could be the regulator tits up but try the simple stuff first If you do need a regulator Electrosport make a good alternate.

The regulator probably uses a small current to sense the Voltage, The Electrosport ones do as well. The original Ducati Energia regulators didn't have any parasitic drain current because they connected downstream of the headlight relay however this caused other problems. The ECU also has power on when the bikes shut off. What happens if you forget to put the fuse back, the charge light doesn't indicate does it? Before you decide to pull the power you could measure the leakage current, I doubt it's very high, once you know that then calculate how long it will take. Just measure between battery + and the regulator on a milliamp range. Suppose for argument sake it's 10 mA and you have a 13 Amp hour battery it's 13 / 0.01 = 1,300 hours To be conservative assume you only have a half charged battery 7 / 0.01 = 700 hours Can someone with an Electrex measure it for us, I will measure an electrosport. A word of caution, you might find your multimeter shows 0 milliamps, it's very easy to blow the fuse in series with this range without noticing, you can check it in series with a 12V LED or other tiny lamp.

Roy, by this you mean the yellow wires coming from the stator underneath the alternator cover at the bottom of the stator coils? Yes, they get brittle with age and vibration and snap off, an easy job to replace with a soldering gun. Check every 5 years or so.