ScuRoo

I checked search but found no entry on the passing of Ivano Beggio (earlier this year) so thought worth posting what I only recently became aware of myself. It’s appropriate to probably acknowledge him as the Father of our magnificent V11’s if he commissioned Marabese for the design. His contributions to the Italian motorcycle racing and development of riders like Rossi etc is very interesting...

Swooshdave “Torque - 115Nm@6000 vs 94Nm@6000rpm“ The R9T Scrambler reads 21Nm more torque than the V11 - plus weighs less. I agree with you about torque, it’s definitely somewhere in there... but “More torque = more fun.” doesn’t really explain it when the V11 has the lesser sum of 94Nm. I grew up riding horses - & the length of the cannon bone (between knee & fetlock) used to be evaluated in assessing suitability of the horses confirmation depending on what performance discipline you wanted to do, ie., dressage, show jumping, race horse etc. So, to my mind I relate that back to the ‘confirmation’ relationship between crankshaft stroke AND conrod length. Somehow, Guzzi horses have that perfect ‘Champions’ confirmation. The elusive ‘Phar Lap’, ‘Winx’ and ‘Black Caviar’ X factor! That’s it! Guzzi’s got it - “Long-legged and easy to live with!”

Been trying to identify the rider in the picture posted previous page - and found this quote in an interview of Gianfranco with his picture tagged TESTER. Also, brother Vittorianno was development rider for the Ducati MotoGP entry, the Desmosedici before later being made team manager. Now, the wearing of Ducati gloves & helmet in picture is clearly odd - so putting the available evidence together I’m wondering whether one or other (or both) of the brothers is the unidentfied rider... New Guzzi bike, Ducati gear, long-term family Guzzi dealer connection, Guzzi racers, tester/development histories, rider style shows expert status... Hmmm!

Focussing solely on and second guessing what the actual horsepower figure eventuates as is a little bit of a mute point - after all it is what it is, 850cc! Moto Guzzi should be congratulated for redesigning and offering riders an air-cooled option which can comply with the Euro5 emission impositions. Other manufacturers like BMW et al, have bailed out and all gone water cooled. I’m loving their contrarian mindset to just say, Hey guys, let’s go swimming upstream and see how much power and efficiency we can screw out with shaving crankshaft weight, titanium valves etc. I know it’s all in the eye of the beholder, but for an Adventure bike, I think this TT is absolutely stunning! I’m not being visually wooed with all the others stark, sharp plastic lines and fancy pants headlights! It’s cool, it’s classic. We’ve clearly been told there’s more coming along... so yep, maybe we should stick with faith, hope and love...

I think it might be worthwhile, at very least interesting, adding a couple of responses from the Spanish same site... Originally written by @Guzziamici From what I have read, they say that in 2021 (the centenariat), they want to close the circle ... but never again was it known about that engine project, a rumor of 1,200 or 1,300 cc liquid cooling. I hope that the big bet is a badly painted motorcycle like that orange california of the 90th anniversary (I think) We will see the comparisons of the V85 with the other brands and how it behaves in the market. Or that they take it out already and not within 2 years. In response to Guzziamici above Cabellero73es goes on to say... Yes it has been known. The new "big block" is announced by the boss of Piaggio, and there are several confirmations that he is working on it. Even in this test it is mentioned again that they will do it when they play ("possiamo farlo e lo faremo, at the moment opportuno"). That they take it out already and not in two years? But if they have been bored to say that the final model will be in November in Milan, to start manufacturing that month and the first deliveries in February. As for what you are saying about the Suzuki Vstorm, that is what there is in fact. Motorcycles light, logical and versatile in which you do not leave a kidney to buy, fun but comfortable to travel without being a transatlantic and operate in the city, short radio, weekend getaways and occasional trips of adventure. That other part of the market that has been lost when the production of the Norge and the Stelvio has stopped (which have always been very minor motorcycles, let's not kid ourselves), you will be able to re-attack when you have a new large block cooled by water, it is the only way to meet the increasingly restrictive Euro4 and especially the Euro5 that sooner or later will play. The only important data that we lack of the V85TT, in addition to confirming definitely that the price remains at 11-12, is the weight. Everything points to 220 kg in running order. If that's the case, it could be what I was reading a couple of days ago in a foreign forum: The Guzzi just at the right time .... Then, if the formula is successful, it is relatively easy to dress it with other clothes and fill a couple of gaps in the catalog ...

This following contribution provides more detail and is translated from a Spanish forum... # 261 · 25 / Aug / 2018, 12:39 · Edited by caballero73es Things that can be read in the report, some new, some already known ... but as a summary what I understood: - Engine: It is the block of the v9 completely redesigned. They reiterate questions that we already knew about the previous Motorcycling report about the engine. 853 cc. 80 HP of maximum power, 80 Nm of torque from 3,400 rpm. At 5,000 turns it holds 130 km / h. Cut at 7,500 rpm. 52mm butterfly body (the V9 has 38mm), 2 valves per cylinder, with more radical geometry, titanium outlet, semi-dry carter with two lubrication pumps (controlled by chain), new crankshaft with 30 % less weight (do you remember that news from two years ago about the development of a new crankshaft in Noale for Guzzi?), reinforced rods and shorter pistons. Reinforced motor block. It complies with Euro4 and will comply with Euro5 when it is implanted (says that working more on the catalyst). - Switchboard: Here they highlight a work in depth, which is not yet finished (in fact, the motorcycle of the test has not yet installed them at all). Three main modes: Road, Rain and Off Track. The management maps not only control the injection, but also the traction control and the ABS. As an example, the Off-Road mode overrides the rear ABS and makes the front as less invasive as possible. As we already knew, the accelerator is electronic (ride-by-wire) - Gearbox: New, with new synchronizing systems. Both the engineer and the tester, say it goes like silk and the "clonk" of the first has disappeared ... we will miss it! - Chassis, new design from scratch. They include a rendering of it. Additionally, the rear tubular structure is added as anchor for side cases and with the trunk anchor included. The swingarm has been lengthened by 70mm compared to that used by the V9 to adapt to the monoshock and to gain stability at high speed. The tested model has no trestle installed, but the axle of the rear wheel has two lugs for a shop storage rack. I understand that that will probably change in the final model. Both the rear brake pedal and the change pedal are adjustable. - Suspensions: The known, although there are no Öhlins here ... The rear shock absorber monkey has 7 positions of preload and regulator of the hydraulic extension. The fork is equally adjustable, but only in the right bottle. - Brakes: radial Brembo with two 320mm floating discs in front and normal disc behind. - Tires and tires: Metzeler Karoo Street and Tourance Next are mounted on the preserver bikes. The radio tires go with an air chamber. - Escape: 2 in 1, with catalyst and presilenciador located under the engine (behind the crankcase). It is protected by the cover carter, although the photos do not look very good if the protection is long enough. - Deposit: 21 liters, made of plastic material. In tests, at a strong pace, the on-board computer showed an average consumption of 19 km / l. Come on, we talked about 400 km of autonomy cheerfully. - Lights: Full Led as it is now said ... the rear wheels are circular (the opening bowler hat is just below the rear pilots). By the way, maybe it was obvious ... but the headlights are fixed, do not rotate with the fork. - Instrument panel: Although it has been the subject of internal debate ... it is the first Guzzi without analog instrumentation. Color picture and with information at hand. Automatic variable lighting. Of the included image that I already put, it is deduced that it takes of series the multimedia system of connection with mobiles and perhaps with helmets bluetooh ?. - Screen: They indicate that it has two positions, one more vertical than the other, manually modifiable with a tool (the tester suggests that in the final version the allen screw system be replaced by bolts that allow it to be made by hand). Enough to remove air from the chest and without generating excessive turbulence in the helmet (although he wears a cross-type helmet and says that some candle effect makes him), thanks to its peculiar design. I imagine that the variants of this screen are going to be an aftermarket hit ... - Posture: Comfortable, with open and wide handlebars (in the photos it looks pretty good when it is curving and how separated are the hands). The pedals allow the legs to be quite distanced from the cylinders, as confirmed in the photos, in fact he comments that the heat of the engine is not too noticeable but something more in the feet, coming from the collector-catalyst that is located in the part down. The seat is one piece, says that comfortable and wide for the pilot, although he indicates that he would like the front area to be a little narrower. - Libreas: Although they had hinted at something else, it seems that finally this white and yellow livery will be a tribute to Claudio Torri's motorcycle in the 1985 Dakar. But also, in monochromatic scheme of a color combined with the red chassis. At the moment, in addition to the black of the preserie units, we have seen photos of a model in dark blue and another in green Legnano: l) - Test: 300 km of curves from Noale. In one of the photos come 4 V85TT, the three blacks used for the tests, and the one that comes with livery. The enthusiasm of the tester regarding the bike is evident, but good here everyone will have their opinion on the degree of realism of these sponsored tests. - Future models. Here we repeat two things that we already knew ... that with this base of engine and chassis are already working on another model, a motorcycle "road" with wheels of 17 ", and that this engine will not be increased later, What they are working on is another type of design. It is again expressly stated that the intention is to offer a motorcycle technologically up to date, but simple and without complications, with a clear objective, which are the new guzzistas that have entered the brand with the V7. Of everything that I am seeing and reading ... I am quite clear about it; This is the first Guzzi 100% Piaggio, where the Aprilia people have been fundamental in the technical improvement of the bike. We'll see if the result warrants it ...

Scud You probably know better than me - but my regular riding mate has a R9T scrambler and I’m on a V11 ScuraR. The stats say... Power - 110HP@7750rpm vs 91HP@7800rpm Torque - 115Nm@6000 vs 94Nm@6000rpm His Wet weight 220kg. My Dry weight 226kg. Now, anyone looking at those figures (myself included) would overwhelmingly be expecting there’s no bloody contest... However, I’m writing for one reason only. Shock! Genuinely, I’ve been utterly shocked at how unreliable paper figures actually work out to be on the road...! Only when there is a long, flat straight, top gear max revs does the R9T have the top end overtake advantage - apart from that scenario it’s wafer thin from point A to B. I’ve even noticed, on rising slopes or hills the scrambler can’t seem to reel the V11 in like on the flat or down hill stretches. So, it’s seems true, Guzzi horses really are “big” horses - and I often wonder what is that actual secret ingredient? It really makes little sense, but still I’m of the view it must be the extra crank stroke length - and possibly some sort of inherent ‘sweet spot’ with the stroke/rod length ratio. Even the aural experience of Guzzi’s V11 syncopation is unmatched - say compared to other like for like 90 degree V-twin architecture, eg., Suzuki’s SV1000 (another mate has one). ... I actually wanted to contribute something useful but unfortunately it’s difficult unpicking or to tease out what I discern inside when out on the road. It truly is a mystery but I’ll wrap up by making this observation - it seems unnervingly illegitimate that I should be punching above my weight but my smile is biggest when I surprise riders with bikes with those better “figures”. So I just find it easiest over a beer explaining, ‘Guzzi horses are big horses’ - without exception, they always nod in agreement.

My Moroccan trip on the Quota 1100es was a revelation in how competent and tough Guzzi designed and made that particular bike. So as a comparison here are its salient attributes: Max power: 70HP @ 6200rpm Max torque: 85Nm @ 3600rpm Dry weight 245kg (& 5 speed) Motorbox confirms this smallblock V85TT as 80HP and has 80Nm @ 3400rpm at near as fly dirt to 200kg. IMHO If the price is right, this bike will sell like there’s no tomorrow...

I noted some dislike the “Ronald McDonald” yellow concept colour scheme but seems Piaggio might be planning on more monochromatic offerings too...

Translated from Czech: Chief of the technical group Piaggio Group talked about the technical details of the new V85 engine. Moto Guzzi V85 has become the winner of the vote for the general public at the EICMA 2017, and so great expectations are met. And they also enjoy great attention. That's why Antonio Cappellini - the number one person in the Piaggio Group design - has expressed it. The V85 is significantly different from the V7 and V9 engines. It's not just a difference in the drilling and lifting of the pistons, the changes inside the engine are all pleiades. We start with titanium valves weighing half that of steel. Their lower inertia forces a higher increase in speed and power. In order to better feed the mixture, the throttle diameter was increased from 38mm to 52mm. It is controlled by ride-by-wire over several different fuel maps. This new throttle also has an innovative traction control that will work more gently than engaging the previously used ignition off. Moto Guzzi V85 - winner of the vote of the EICMA The crankcase is not wet as with V7 / V9 but is semi-dry. Two oil pumps are now available for lubrication. One is pressure and the other suction. In engine V7, the oil was sent to the top of the head, from where it flowed back down into the engine. At V85, the oil circuit is forced through two pumps. The result is better oil cooling and a great deal of lubrication from the crank where there are great piston pressures. With these pressures the oil was unnecessarily heated. The cylinders still have two-valve technology. However, the engine meets Euro4 and will meet Euro5. It has a performance of 80 hp, which is a beautiful shift compared to 55 hp on the V9 engine. It also helps with the new crankshaft, which is made of more rigid materials and therefore can be lighter. All the other shafts in the engine and gearbox are also lighter and, along with other changes, nearly 30% of the weight is saved on the engine's interior. This lighter engine interior also contributed to a significant reduction in vibrations and to a steady torque curve, which is totally equal from 3400 rpm. The engine's engine is completely new. It is more robust, because the engine itself will be a part of the frame. The entire set with a small frame will achieve excellent stiffness, comparable to the Stelvio 1200 model. While the V85 will not be able to compete with the Stelvio 1200, the V85 will be lighter and the power / weight ratio will be at 800cc. Moto Guzzi V85 has a dry clutch again. The gear selector has been redesigned, so you will no longer hear the classic clutter when running on neutral. A silentblock was mounted on the cardan wings to make the shot softer. The engine itself will not be sold in different power versions. It is designed for 80 horsepower and will be assembled. However, it is clear today that the V85 will also appear in other segments, and the road version is already working. Will it be a new version of the V9 series? The non-finalized prototype shows what we wrote in our earlier article. That EICMA showed the bike what it might be, not what it really is. The center of attention was Brembo M50 and Ohlins chassis, which both components got on the new prototype to the price of reasonable limits. In front, the Brembo P4.34 brakes, the Marzocchi front shock absorber and the rear Sachs silencer have been installed. At the EICMA prototype the lights, LCD and plexi label were anchored in the glasses steering. Now the lights, the LCD and the plexus are independently anchored directly to the frame and therefore there has been added a massive scaffold that holds it all. This was positively influenced by maneuverability, especially with faster turnarounds. http://motosvet.cz/testy/373-detaily-motoru-moto-guzzi-v85.html

The secrets of the Moto Guzzi V85 engine Antonio Cappellini - responsible for the design of the Piaggio group - reveals the secrets of the two-cylinder Moto Guzzi V85. Titanium and maniacal valves seeking lightness to increase power and make the delivery smoother, as well as semi-dry crankcase lubrication At the last Motor Show in Milan, Moto Guzzi presented the prototype of the V85 endurona. In the last few months we interviewed Marco Lambri, the person in charge of the bike line, who told us some anecdotes about the birth of this bike. Now instead the word goes to Antonio Cappellini - number one of the design of the Piaggio group - that exclusively for Motociclismo unveils the secrets of the twin-cylinder Moto Guzzi V85. Off-road rider, amateur rider of motocross and husband of a motorcyclist who in his youth guided the Aspes Hopi (and who knows if he knows that the 125 Gallarate was a nice peperino!) Cappellini does not skimp information on the new engine dell'endurona. The secrets of the Moto Guzzi V85 engine A new Guzzi engine is always a highly anticipated event not only by the enthusiasts of the Mandello del Lario brand. Really this V of 90 ° is different from the two-cylinder that equip the custom V9 and the naked V7 III? "It derives from the V9 engine, but only in architecture and bore and stroke measurements; the analogy ends here and can be considered a whole new engine. And I explain why. Let's start by saying that the lubrication is a semi-dry crankcase and not a wet sump. We have two coaxial pumps instead of one; they are used for the delivery and to recover the lubricant. In the old V7 engine all the oil was sent to the top of the heads and less to other parts. Of course, so exposed to the air it cooled well and lowered the temperature of the hottest area, but it was not the best for general lubrication. We are so sure of the performance of this semi-dry system that we do not even have an oil cooler. With the semi-dry solution we also have a crank shaft crankcase completely insulated, avoiding the possible absorption of power deriving from an "open" solution where the piston must also overcome the back pressure inside the crankcases ". But how did you manage to increase the power up to 80 hp? The V9 has only 55. A nice step forward. "Everyone thinks that this engine has four valves per cylinder for this performance. Actually we only have two. It was a good undertaking to get 100 HP / liter from an air-cooled engine while maintaining the distribution to rods and rocker arms. However, we wanted to respect the classic technical architecture of Guzzi engines ". What is the secret to having these benefits? "Having a titanium intake valve. It weighs half of an analogous steel and this has allowed us to adopt a geometry of the opening of the valves much more radical. We still used only one intake manifold, but with a throttle body of 52 mm in diameter against 38 mm of that of the peaceful V9. In addition, the accelerator is ride-by-wire, while the other has a mechanical drive. With the electronic throttle control, engine management is facilitated and we can better manage the entire supply, starting with the various mappings and the traction control system. But we did not stop here in the technical review of the V9. Because the V85 has a new crankshaft, several stiffer connecting rods and even shorter-clad pistons. We have saved almost 30% of the weight of the embellishment. And this has allowed us to cut the vibrations drastically even at maximum speed ". The frame is completely different from those of the history of the twin-cylinder V7, so much so that the engine has become an element of stiffening of the entire structure. Did you have to intervene on the base? "Yes, the carter are all new, sturdier just to give greater rigidity because I wanted a frame that would allow you to enter the curve with the same precision and solidity of our Stelvio. And I told my engineers: 'As long as I do not feel the tread that rubs on the asphalt I'm not happy'. And touch, I assure you that it touches! We have also extended the swingarm to make the rear suspension work better and increase the driving precision on the fast ". The secrets of the Moto Guzzi V85 engine The V85 is born to confront with a fierce competition in the off-road sector, motorcycles that have brilliant engines ... "I assure you that this twin-cylinder will be quick and bright. We have a torque that expresses the maximum of its value of 80 Nm at only 3,400 rpm and its work curve is actually a straight line that remains so until the maximum of laps. Of course we can not compete with the twin-cylinder 1200, but we play with the competitors of equal displacement. We are there having a year around this engine and we have not finished yet, but we want to be sure to have a motor at the height of a great Guzzi. We could certainly build a liquid-cooled twin cylinder with four valves per cylinder - and we will do it - but we wanted to keep the image of a classic Guzzi at all costs ". Guzzi engines are recognized with their eyes closed not only for the sound to the exhaust, but also for that clock that accompanies the insertion of the gear. "You will not hear it anymore. Using a dry clutch, and ours is, when the first gear engages, the complete disengaging of the clutch allows the whole system of the primary transmission and the gearbox to turn quickly again. The clock that is heard derives from the engagement of the selector that collides with the fast rotation of the gears. With the friction in the oil bath everything is 'softer' and the noise is lower. But we worked hard to soften, even make this clock disappear and have more silent gearshifts than the six-speed gearbox. In addition we have put a damper on the output of the gearbox due to the increased power and to have an even 'softer' response to the final shaft transmission ". It has always been said that the ever more stringent anti-pollution regulations would not allow to keep the air-cooled engines ... "But this V85 is the proven proof that you can very well make a similar engine that passes the guillotine of emissions without problems. It was immediately OK for the Euro 4 and is already ready to adapt to the much more restrictive Euro 5. We will probably have to work hard on the catalysts, but with a power of 100 hp / liter there are no problems even with air cooling. And then this is an engine that consumes very little. If you think about it, it's a propeller that does not have too many components to absorb power. It has no cooling pump, it does not have long chains or distribution belts and the rod and rocker system is among the most parks in eating power ... And so we consume little ". Has it been studied to grow in displacement? "No. Not because it is not structured to accommodate a cubature even higher, but because it is born to have a balance between performance and lightness. And that's what we're looking for from a bike in this category ". Will it also be used for other models? "Yes: we are working on a road version that already today drives very, very well, and then on more ...". https://www.google.com.au/amp/m.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-v85-segreti-motore-intervista-cappellini-70088.amp

Hi fella's Been mulling over Docc's beer bottle mod - can the method be improved upon for the effectiveness to effort ratio? Pics first, then some thoughts to follow...

" Raceco UK October 4, 2017 · Raceco Moto Guzzi SS2 and SS3 camshafts will be produced during the month of October. Some will be available for outright purchase or you can send your cam to be re-ground. As there still a demand for these cams I intend to have a yearly batch done each autumn ready for winter rebuilds. Pictured is an SS3 cam that is currently available for outright purchase. Please get in touch with me by email at a.castellani1@btinternet.com if you are interested in purchasing a camshaft outright or would like your camshaft re-ground. The cams will be £175.00 GBP Sterling if reground on your original cam or on an exchange basis if available. Outright purchase, if available, will be £255.00. Carriage extra. As I'm having them done in bulk this is actually £20.00 cheaper than it was four years ago when I was running Raceco UK full time. For the big two valve Guzzis I would recommend the SS2. We have fitted many since the 80s to everything from T3, Californias, Converts to Le Mans 1,2,3, and 1000. A very flexible cam. Our best seller for many years. This can be used with standard springs that have been shimmed to 36mm. Pulls from 1,500 rpm with extra kick from 4,500 rpm. Information regarding the SS3 camshaft: Although the SS2 profile is different the cam fitted to the Sport 1100 and V11 as standard, it is very similar to the SS2 in terms of lift and duration. For this reason I developed the SS3 which does give a pretty big improvement. It is based on the RR3 cam that was used by Doctor John Wittner for racing at one point before he started using the "F" full race cam. The RR3 is suitable for high rpm road and race use and is more flexible than the "F" cam. It is a performance cam. It is a difficult cam to fit, will require different valve springs and top collars and in some cases machining of the valve seats so the valves do not touch on the overlap. A cam for the technically minded home mechanic or professional engine builder. "

Thanks for the links & report on your LED trial docc. Fortunate to find in time those meltdowns etc. I was all set to follow down the same path with this LED swap - until I noticed your late one night thoughts on its actual performance! The night riding aspect captures my interest. What's your conclusion here for increasing our V11's headlight capacity in lighting up the road ahead for better night riding vision? Is it that LED bulb swaps as a technology in general for V11's isn't all it's cracked up to be insofar as an upgrade for increasing night riding vision... or just this particular brand of LED bulb being a let down??

Fun, inspirational. Chuck, you've found the fountain of youth...

Bwahahaha! We've had some interesting footage Downunder here fella's… you guy's sure seem to have been having some fun & high-jinks in your neck of of the woods. So, who's the free world gonna end up getting…?

On the Megacycle listing for the 620x11 it is clearly described as the "Norris SS. Drag Race/Hi Performance" http://www.dpguzzi.com/megacams.pdf Now, Raceco also describes their improved SS2 thus: "Raceco’s SS2 camshaft is a development of the Italian SS (also known as P3) camshaft. The SS2 Cam has more duration and overlap than the old SS but still retains the low down pulling power with the added bonus of extra power at the top end. This is our most popular road cam. It has been fitted with excellent results to everything from Converts to LM5’s. This cam requires checking for valve to valve and valve piston clearances, components may have to be machined for correct fitting. We will fit it for you if you wish." http://www.raceco.com/motog.html So, the identity question remains, is the "Italian SS (also known as the P3) Raceco are referring to - actually the Norris SS, or has this "SS" designation been coincidently used twice, the Italian SS (or P3) and the US company Norris independently developed their own "SS" version…? Then again, Raceco describe their Raceco SS3 camshaft as: "Designed specifically for V11 and Sport 1100 type engines. As the original camshaft in these engines is very similar to the SS2, we have decided to make a more powerful alternative available." The Internet - all over the shop like a mad woman's breakfast. Grrrrr. So, in short, what's correct order of cams going from hot, hotter, hottest? Is the order 620x10, followed by the Raceco SS2, then 620x11…? Or is it - Raceco SS2, 620x10, then 620x11? Anyhow, one thing is clear - Kent Cams confirms they can reprofile a supplied V11 cam into the Raceco SS2 for GBP128 - & the GBP has Brexit plummeted!

Thanks LP - yep, I'm up on Megacycle having bought Norris out aways back & the SS is now labelled the 620x11. Cy, Megacycle have them listed for sale - here's their MG specific list http://www.dpguzzi.com/megacams.pdf& see the duration/lift specs on it (also compare stock & 620x10). "Thomas" the SP1000 owner seems to be a lone voice in the desert in his recommendation…. Has anyone even considered it before finally choosing another - I'd even be interested to know why you chose to pass it over in favour of something else.

I've developed an unhealthy curiosity towards the Norris SS cam, the 620x11. Seeking any persuasive opinion and/or dissuasive discussion for enjoyable enlightenment. So, I'm putting it out there - as seems it's not a cam that V11 owners ever seem to install. True, I understand recommendations abound that the 620x10 is the go to usual suspect… However, an SP1000 owner is happily using it & I'm baffled as to why the Norris SS isn't one V11 owners haven't utilised…? SP1000 owner quote: "There are several good performance cams on the market. I fitted a Megacycle 620x11 to my wolf-in-sheeps-clothing SP1000 and in my opinion every streetbike should have one - not to mention racebikes. Why do I say this? My bike is a streetbike/commuter and I feel no loss of bottom-end performance and gains everywhere else. (I'm running LM2 heads - same valve sizes as the LM3 - and PHF36 carbs)." Btw, in the course of my travels I found this former published interview with Norris Barsumian which I include for those that might find it interesting as well. Interview: Norris Barsumian We Venture Into The World Of Camshaft Esoterica, Where A Little Means A Lot, If Going Faster Is The Goal. JODY NICHOLAS WITHIN THE SHORT SPAN of three years, Norris Performance Products has grown from a two-man operation to one of the most respected names in racing cams for both automotive and motorcycle engines. It's still not a large company, but it is growing steadily, and is constantly improving its products. Norris Barsumian is a motorcyclist who was previously involved with electronics, while Norris Baronian formerly held the position of general manager of Iskenderian Cams. Working together, they have produced cams for recordholding cars and motorcycles all over the U.S. Danny Macias, head of the Triumph-BSA racing effort in the U.S., has been using Norris cams fora couple of years, as has Harold Allison, the tuner of the Norton 750 which carried me to many victories at Ascot Park this past season. What, then, is the secret behind these fast machines? We feel that the cams played a very important part. One which we wanted to know more about. CAM LOBE DESIGN CW: Now Ilui! we know sonic oj the basic terminology regarding earns, could you explain a little more? Norris: Sure. On any cam there is an opening ramp and a closing ramp. They may be the same (symmetrical) or they may have different (asymmetrical) characteristics. Our cams for Triumph and Norton are symmetrical, but the Honda cams are asymmetrical, for a reason I’ll explain in a moment. Most of the actual lift occurs in the flank portion of any cam, but it’s important to have a good combination between the rates of lift of all three basic parts of the lobe. Eor example, a cam could be designed to have a rather quick-lifting ramp, and have the rate of lift slow down somewhat in the flank section. We’ve found that a maximum rate of lift of 0.007 in. per degree of crankshaft rotation works extremely well in the 650 Triumph. CW: What determines the amount of valve clearance, or "lash, "in any particular engine? HV know, for instance, that you set the valves for zero lift on a Royal ffnfield Single, but the figure for other machines is often in the region of 0.010 in. Norris: Valve lash is determined by the engine designer (or by the cam designer), and is directly related to the amount of “growth” experienced by the cylinder and valve train components when an engine gets up to operating temperatures. A Harley Sportster will run along with about 0.0 lb-in. valve lash when hot, but the clearance is nil when the engine is cold. Media Credit Media Caption Media Description Media Image Media Credit Media Caption Media Description Media Image One thing most people don't realize is that you can alter the characteristics of a cam merely by varying the amount of lash in the valves. You can squeeze down on the lash it you need a little more top end. or you can open up the clearance a little il the cam (like ours) has a long ramp area and gain a little mid-range power and torque. It s best not to overdo this, however, as too much lash will cause damage to certain of the valve train components, and too little could cause the valves to burn. Most people don’t realize that cams are “adjustable” like this, but it's best to get the information from the cam designer, or some authority, betöre making any radical changes. Another reason for valve lash is to allow the valve to sit on its seat and cool. There’s less you can do in this area with an overhead cam machine because of the lesser amount of variance between hot and cold clearances. Getting back to the asymmetrical lobe design of a Honda, it is because they use a finger-type follower that the lift ratio isn't the same on both sides. The cam rotates in only one direction, but the followers are on both sides of the cam. On one of the followers, the cam is picking it up from the back side of the lifter shoe, and on the other, it begins lifting on the front side. As the cam sweeps across the lifter either towards the central pivot point, or away from it. the ratio of lift is constantly varying. Hence, the cam lobe must be ground accordingly to obtain a symmetrical opening/closing rate for the valve. PROCESSING A CAM CW: What happens to a customer's earn w hen it comes in for a regrind? Norris: First, the cam bearings are checked to make sure they're not out of round, and I look to make sure there’s enough material on the lobes to permit a regrind. We then grind the cam and send it out for a special heat treating which doesn't distort it. After another check we send the cam back out for a double lubing. It’s first Parkerized (an acid and manganese iron high-temperature process which deposits a non-metallie lubricant into the pores of the metal) and then dry-lubed, using an aircraft process which involves baking. CW:7.v/;7 that like Microseal? Norris: It performs the same job as Microseal, but it’s not the same process. The main idea is to allow the cam lobe and lifter to “mate”; that is, to form a rubbing surface on each. Most cam lobe and lifter failures occur in the first few minutes of operation, before the rubbing surface is properly formed. We also include an assembly lube with our cams for the guys to use so that the parts stay lubed until oil pressure reaches them. It makes a big difference in the life of the parts. CW: What do you do when a cam has to he huilt up to get enough lift after regrinding? Norris: We use one of two processes, either heliare or acetylene welding. We use the heliare on most cams because the metal flows onto the lobe more densely. With acetylene, the cam has to be heated so high that controlling the flow of the rod is often difficult. It just runs all over. But we have to use acetylene on Honda cams because they have a form of graphite introduced into the lobes to alleviate the wear problems they used to have. Trying to hard-face over a lubricant like graphite is tough, but we now use a new rod which works very well. On the built-up cams, we grind a groove in the center which begins on the ramp, continues through the flank, up over the nose, and down the other side. The hard-face is then laid beginning in the center of the groove and is layered to a thickness of 1 /8 in. or so at the top of the nôse. Even after grinding, there is enough hard-face to keep from going into the original material, and with the groove full of the hard-face material, it doesn’t matter if you do grind a little below where the original material was. LIFTER DESIGN CW: What influences lifter design? We know that some machines use a radiused lifter, while others use a flat tappet, and a few use a roller tappet. Which is best, and why ? Norris: The lifter design is really an outgrowth of the engine’s design and the purpose for which the machine was originally designed. A roller tappet requires a larger base circle on the cam than a flat tappet with the same lift and duration characteristics, but is usually quieter in operation. A flat or radiused tappet can be made almost as silent through the use of quieting ramps on the cam lobe itself. A quieting ramp merely begins the lift pattern a little earlier and more gradually. With a racing engine, however, noise is of little consequence, and the most important considerations are to get the valve open as quickly as possible, hold it open a long time, and then get it closed. Media Credit Media Caption "Master" cams for the Norton (above) and Triumph (below). These devices are patterns for grinding a customer's cam and fit on the end of the cam grinding machine. Media Description Media Image Media Credit Media Caption Norris prefers double straight-wound valve springs with a third, flat-wound spring in between to cancel our harmonics. Media Description Media Image CW: Do you make any roller tappet conversions for the British and Japanese machines? Norris: No. We don’t feel that they’re necessary and they do have several disadvantages. First of all, they’re expensive, and they take up more room. The rollers also have a tendency to slide or skid over the lobe at high rpm, and the needle bearings inside the roller often fail under such conditions. They work well in large V-8 car engines because the cam lobes and roller diameters are large, but not in high-rpm motorcycle engines. The Triumph uses a radiused lifter that approximates a roller lifter’s shape, so we use a “roller profile” grind on the cam. CW: What about the ratio of the rocketarm on an overhead valve engine? Norris: Well, the ratio of the rocker arm is decided by the engine designer, and we haven’t found it necessary to change it on a motorcycle engine. If we want a valve lift of 0.400 in., and we know a rocker arm ratio is 1.2:1, we grind the cam to have a lift of 0.352 in. Most of our cams have higher lift and longer duration than our competitors’ cams, but we’ve been able to get good results because of other techniques we use. THE VALVE SPRING Norris: The valve spring’s function is to control positively the opening and closing of the valve. But the spring also has to force the valve, rocker arm, pushrod and tappet back into their relative positions after the cycle has completed itself so that another cycle can take place. But it’s not as simple as all that. At high rpm, stresses on the valve train are multiplied greatly, and therefore spring pressures are often as high as 400 psi when the valve is fully open. CW: We notice that you have a flat third spring between the inner and outer valve springs. Norris: Yes, it’s called a damper spring and it serves to reduce the harmonics that the valve springs set up during their operation at different rpm. The springs behave much like a quitar string in that they flex in the middle, setting up a harmonic vibration. This harmonic upsets the springs to such an extent that premature valve float often sets in, keeping the engine from developing its maximum power. And it can also cause damage to other components in the valve train. The idea of the damper, then, is to put in a stiff spring between the inner and outer valve springs which is coiled in the opposite direction. This damper actually touches the other springs when they begin to go into harmonics, and has a reverse effect, and a cancellation effect occurs. Any drag between the three springs is reduced to practically nothing shortly after the engine is started as they “lap” themselves in. Using this design, we can effectively use lower spring pressure for a given rpm limit. For example, all our springs are constant rate, but the pressure of the valve on its seat in a 050 Triumph is only 90 lb. I bis low pressure means less cam lobe wear, and eases the strain on all components. We use and believe in this, not because it’s something new, but because it works. I’ve had customers with both Nortons and Triumphs pick up 300-500 rpm just by changing to our springs. CW: You also advocate the use oj your titanium retainers with your cams? Norris: Yes, there is quite an advantage to using titanium for the retainers instead of steel or aluminum. Titanium is lighter than steel and almost as strong. Although aluminum is lighter than either of the other materials, it isn’t nearly as strong. Every ounce you can save in the valve train is worth its weight in gold. INTAKE AND EXHAUST TUNING CW: What about intake and exhaust tuning? Do you take that into consideration when designing a cam? Norris: Because we design cams for engines that are already in production, we know we have certain parameters within which we can work. We keep pretty close track of all our cams, and if we find that a certain type of intake or exhaust system works well, we publish it along with the cam’s specifications in our catalog. The only way to be really sure is to use a dynamometer. If it works on the dyno, it will work on the track. But actual track testing under racing conditions can further development. A subtle change to an intake or exhaust system can make a world of difference. Media Credit Media Caption 1) A standard Triumph 650 cam. 2) Grooves are ground into the lobes to accept the hard facing. 3) A cam which has been hard-faced, and is ready for grinding. 4) The finished product. Media Description Media Image http://bondiviewertest.azurewebsites.net/DataView/Article/CW?issueKey=19710601&articleKey=19710601068 So, back to the Norris SS for the V11, are there any owners who have tried?