emry

Yamaha V-star 950, 1700, and 1900's. Suzuki C90's for example. MM1.5 is not a primitve ECU. It was used in a primitive manor with poorly developed mapping. It is more than capable of doing the required calculations. Ducati 900's have used the MM1.5 with fairly good success. MAP sensors are used as a primary sensor to determine initial fuel injector duration along with rpm. MAP sensors are used to determine air flow into the engine while the ECU is operating in D-Jetronic mode. Temp sensors are used to modify the initial value for engine operating temp. During rapid throttle movements or above about 1/2 throttle angle opening all powersports manufactures ECU's will switch to a Alpha-n fueling mode, TP sensor & rpm based lookup with temp modification. Our ECU's are always in Alpha-N. Temperature is always important to an engines fuel calculations because engine temperature is directly linked to combustion, intake and mechancial efficiency, this can be very important for emissions reasons, not to mention cold starts. And yes more heat sensed means leaner because the map sucks. The sensor could work fine if the ECU was mapped correctly. But we could replace the sensor and leave the map alone. Ratchet's approach - (but he didn't have a problem) As for apples to oranges. Engines are engines are engines. They all do the same thing. Burn something, heat some air to expand it, push something to make something else go round and round. Weeee we have an engine.

Add Yamaha, Suzuki, and Victory to your list. Im sure there are others. These are just the few that have come to mind. You missed my post back on page 11!!! Just like I missed yours!!! This thread has gotten silly.

Lets be sure and post our findings on all of the other brand's forums. Just to let them know all of their engineers have been incorrectly specing sensors also. What if we just swap our air temp sensor and head "whatever" sensors around??? Maybe they just got them mixed up on the ass line like the seat spring / choke spring.

We have the 10% ethanol here in the Atlanta, GA area and I have not had a problem yet with my 02.

Let me just get this straight. 1st a sensor designed to be submerged in a liquid was used to measure the heated air temp of a solid mass in and enclosed space. 2nd a sensor designed to be submerged in a liquid was was used to measure the temp of a solid mass that heats a liquid in contact between the mass and sensor. 3rd a sensor designed to measure a moving gases temp was used to measure the temp of heated air of a solid mass in an enclosed space. 4th What is the problem? Bad mapping or the wrong spec sensor or both. Are we fixing the sickness, the symptoms, or the reaction to bad medication? WTF. Has anyone mentioned that the damn lookup chart was written in Italy. Guzzi does NO testing outside its local region and the sensor they had avail worked so they adjusted the table to suit. Extreme temp riders be damned. You'll figure it out, you always have. Now we are trying to fix a sensor that isn't broke (but the holder is cause I touched it), cause the table is screwed up. Huh?? Ratch is on the right track with adding the resistance to the sensor to at least alleviate a lean running condition, but he has a Power Commander. What the hell is that for then? Wallet lightening? Doesn't the heat sink just drop the temp of the sensor??? Like adding more resistance... (Same result as far as the ECU knows.) Couldn't the wonder knob do that. Even the udders couldn't keep me away, this thread is like crack - so bad but sooo.... good.... Pete, HELP ME - send me some Yak fat to lube my square wheel bearings with. They spin. That cant be right. Greg, HELP ME - my 50k worth of stock is still worth 15k... Ratch, HELP ME - write a post I can read before I age... Emry, HELP ME - - - - I've tried, there is no help for you.

Excellent redesign. Your English is better than mine, and that is all I have ever known.

After that image i will not do a head vs sensor vs 4 gas ega reading and post its video record on Youtube. I won't be able to eat cereal for a month. This thread be banned....

Go talk to some guys that run an alcohol dragster, they should be able to quickly get you straightened out about the need conversions. As for clogging the fuel filters, I recall melting just about anything plastic or swelling rubber, that would then clog the filter, leak or pass so little fuel as to be useless. Plastic filters would just melt into a shrived ball.

But missiles are much much much much KOOLER!!! Thats why we have EFI on a 1950's AL lump in the first place right? Not that I want to cut this short of 40 pages, (sorry Greg, I didn't invest) how about a simple experiment Ratch. Measure the divided voltage of the sensor and the actual head temp at the same time. That way you can actually post some thermal inertia data that would make everyone happy. Then you could scientifically decide if you needed MORE mass or less MASS to the newly spec'ed sensor. (What if the head actually cools faster than the sensor!!!! OH DEFICATION!!!) Less mass and no plastic or brass holder. Wait, mine is made out of copper. OH DEFICATION!!, what do i do? Elmer's Paste in the gap? I'm so confused but I refuse to re-read GIGABYTES of speculation. Sorry, I have to work. Oh yeah, from the divided voltage you can calculate the other half of the resistor in the ECU. But only if you study Ohm's law really hard!!! For those who just want to know. Ratch, I am glad you are attempting to at least spec out a sensor that would do the job the Italian's wanted it to do in the first place. I may rub you once and awhile but it is all in good fun. I'll just thank Cliff for making a simple ECU that I can do what I want with. Like correct the poor engine mapping temp corrections. I MADE 34!!! YES!!!! Had to edit that in....

Why not buck up for some Ti bolts. Those are also readily available for Duc's.

I don't want to bum you out Greg, but maybe these gents already have the patent. Turns out my "Dial-a-Knob" was too close to other products and I was hit with a "infringement" lawsuit.

**SPECULATION** I do not have a O2 equipped Guzzi to verify this. Most motorcycles will operate in closed loop during idle, and constant throttle (cruising) conditions only. The A/F mix is adjusted in real time with NO data stored for future use. (In other words no short or long term trims, for those of you familiar with that.) Normally when an O2 sensor is unplugged or left to hang, it will send a lean signal (low voltage) to the ECU the ECU compensates until a certain cut off point by richening the A/F mix. Once this point is reached one of two things happen. 1. The ECU ignores the O2 sensor and stays in OPEN loop & turns on the Check engine light and stores a code. 2. The ECU ignores the O2 sensor and stays in OPEN loop. When the ECU switches back to open loop due to this type of failure it will continue to run in open loop until the next time the bike is turned off and restarted. Then the process is repeated. Personally I would just remove the O2 sensor. Your fuel mileage may suffer a little depending on your riding habits though. But you didn't buy a Guzzi for good economy did you?

Good luck Jim, I think the only limp home mode our ECU's have is the one that you use after you crash.

$235 a year Full Coverage with a $500 Deduc, but I am not sure about the limits. Multi-line discount through State Farm. The 70 Ambassador is $110 a year for only collision.

I have about 13k miles on the orginal stock single plate. I did pull the trans, check for cracks and retorque the mounting bolts early in its life thou. how much longer will it last. Time will tell.

Just another two cents here. I have read about who spec'ed what and why and when. They (engineers, particually at small companies) spec from what is available. They get a catalog and look in it and point their finger and say that will work, order up!!! It is in all aspects a COOLANT TEMP SENSOR. Not an oil temp sensor or head temp sensor. Thanks for pointing this out Dan and summerizing. So they bodged it to work and took a imperfect reading sensor and mapped the bike accordingly. Great two problems. Hats of to Ratch for creating a cheap PowerCommander. But since we are all so zealous about this why don't we spec out our own sensor?? Our engines are simple and the FI system is just as simple. The conditions (locations, temps, humidity, etc..) that our bikes can run into make for many situations that our bikes don't run well in. So the map is to lean, compress your pressure reg to add more preload to the spring and bump up the fuel presure. Well great it is fine at 3/4+ throttle you say, but what about idle. Advance your TPS. Oh no not more timing!! Slot your timing reluctor and retard it. Oh ackk. This is like work. LOL!!!!

Bad rear bulb or connection. This is a simple paralell circuit, when one path goes open, the circuits resistance increases to the point that bi-metallic flasher will not heat up, thus no blinky blinky.

Why not just put a big'ol stereo knob up on that upper clamp and do away with the dang oil/head/hot air non-maybe-some-fillerup-air gap brass but shouda been some kinda plasticy something or other. Then you could just dial away all the running troubles. Weeeee!!!! Volume up!!! Maybe i'll market it and call it "Dial-a-Knob" Maybe I can cash out before Dial-a-Jet sues me. I bet if all the silly banter continues we can beat that elastomer / hysteresis - hysterious(look that up in the urban dicitionary) drilling thread. We are almost there. We can out think the Italians.

Since you guys are getting into the excel stuff, here is a file I use to compare my changes. Cut and paste your original and current map, then you can see the percent of change and also a graph, with injector durations at 20deg & 40deg. Feel free to use it, add to it, distort, twist or maim at your leisure. I just zipped the xls file. compare.zip

I just thought I would add these pics. Who ever is better able to determine a proper outcome, cheers. As a note I run a "homemade" brass sensor holder. Pic #1 Cylinder Head Temp on a Yamaha XV1900. Pic #2 Cylinder Head Temp sensor is on the left as compared to a standard Coolant Temp sensor from a water cooled model.

Kadavere, I was having similar running problem to yours. The maps I was running were just too lean. So I richened up large portions of my map and the difference was significant. While I have not spent very much time tuning this map it has given me a very startable and rideable map. I am fairly certain that you running issuses are map related and not MyP8 related. Have you measured the stock P8 injector durations with a scope and manually translated them to the MyECU??

http://www.microsquirt.info/ This is derivative of the "megasquirt" line of ECU's. http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html Much more info available.

I must of missed this, could you link it please.

I found Cliffs post a little confusing too. TDC?? Which one compression or overlap? If we back up from either of the TDC's 300 degrees we end up in the middle of our power stroke (too early) or the middle of our intake stroke (too late). Neither would be a good time to inject. Lubho - I agree. Lubho - The chart is a simple valve lift vs crank angle chart, and it shows two complete cycles. The cam specs are not radical, in fact they are quite close to the x3 cam for our bikes from megacycle. Just in case- Camshaft timing info. Perhaps this picture would help instead. It is from the above article.

For those of use that are verbally challenged. NOTE: timing and cam specs are not from our engines!!!!