pete roper

Cliff's ECU is actually a top quality and fully tunable unit. It's not some lashed together add on bit of junk and you know how generally scathing I am about most aftermarket stuff.

Did those fork measurements come through Phil?

Forced induction on spark ignited engines is a first class ticket to misery on steroids!

I think that just proves my point. My mate Dave, (RIP.) had a Harris swingarm on his MkVI LeMans that floated the bevelbox. It was an absolute frontbottom of a thing!

Chris, the dash reading is simply ambient temp, it's sensor lives up by the dash and doesn't have any feed into the ecu. The ambient air temp sensor is in the airbox and the engine temperature sensor is in the back of the RH head.

Phil, believe me. Mark knows exactly what he's doing and knows the W5AM inside out.

Cut-in on mine is at 2,700. I haven't noticed any problems but that could simply be me. Mark's maps generally have the fuel edited out to that point unless specifically requested otherwise. I don't think he has many requests for its reinstatement.

What exactly happens on the over-run? Is it backfiring? And what pipe are you running? If aftermarket, does it have a dB killer installed? They will all tend to backfire a bit on the over-run. The stock mufffler tends to mask it pretty well and the sound of it becomes both more noticeable and more prevalent the more 'Open' the pipe. It is one of the peculiarities of the Webber system that the ecu will keep delivering the idle fuel, that which is delivered at 4.8* throttle angle in the case of a Stelvio, at all engine speeds when the throttle is closed. Now while the crank is turning at idle speed the fuel delivered is just sufficient to keep the afr correct-ish so the engine will run and the mixture will ignite every second revolution as it should. The problem occurs when the motor is spinning harder and therefore pumping harder. As the engine slows down the rapidly pumping pistons will greatly increase the manifold depression on the engine side of the butterflies so more aiir gets pushed past them. Now the ecu is delivering just enough fuel for the engine to idle but with this situation the mixture is incombustible lean. It won't ignite in the cylinder every revolution, it's simply too lean to do so and it gets pumped through the motor and expelled unburnt into the exhaust. Over a period of cycles of the engine harmonics and residual mixture left behind as end gas in the cylinder will periodically reach the point where the mixture will ignite and when this happens as soon as the hot, still burning, exhaust gasses are expelled into the exhaust they will ignite the previously expelled unburnt mixture causing the backfire. Harmonics play a big part in this and you will probably notice that the backfiring will occur at certain precise points as the engine is slowing down. That's why. Most fuel systems nowadays get around this problem very easily. They simply stop all fuel delivery on a closed throttle until the engine slows down to a certain point. Phil has previously explained that it is very easy to do the same thing with the Webber system. You just yank the map out of the ecu, open it with Tunerpro and then reduce all the figures in the first two columns of the map to zeroes above the point where you want fuel delivery to recommence. Most people who do this opt for 2,500-2,700 rpm. It has the added advantages of slightly increasing engine braking, reducing fuel use as well as killing exhaust popping stone dead! If there is no fuel being delivered then there is nothing to burn. Nothing to burn and there is no backfiring! Simples! Also if you are an easily entertained peasant like me it means that on hills like the one descending into Queanbeyan from Bungendore you can go down the hill in a high gear using engine braking to slow you down and playa game where you judge your slowing down so when the fuel cuts back in and causes the bike to give a little lurch as it does so it coincides with passing the 60kph speed limit sign on the edge of town! Yeah. I'm a bear of very little brain....

First check the paint on the throttlestop screw is intact. Then check the ball joints are unmolested. Then see what the TPS reading is but don't reset it especially if the throttlestop screw has been moved. Report back.

I don't doubt it but getting the TPS out of the RH TB is pretty much impossible without buggering it on the big throttlebodies and you'd also have to remove the stepper if you wanted to plunge-bath the whole lot. I'm too lazy for that.

For cleaning the TB's I just take them off. Yeah, getting the airbox in and out is a bit of a pain but as long as you don't over fill the sump you really don't have to do it very often. When Michael was swapping my gearbox on the Griso for a Sport 1200 one a few weeks ago we pulled the TB's off and they were pretty grubby after 40,000 or so Km and needed doing but this had been exacerbated by me over-filling the big Green Pig for ages. I've got one of those oil temperature gauge dipsticks, (Initially because I was interested in oil temperatures but now I just keep it because I'm a wanker!) and I'd forgotten I'd marked it with a 'Full' mark to be used on the sidestand. I'd been using it with the bike upright which adds about 1/2 a litre more oil that it needs and it was simply pumping it out into the airbox. I've given myself a slap on the wrist and suitably severe talking to, (Made worse by Michael rolling his eyes and not saying anything!) but generally, as long as you don't over fill it I would think every 30,000 km should be fine. Really it's a matter of looking and judging for yourself. If they look grubby? It's probably time! As for cleaning the stepper? I simply get the bike warm and pull the stepper hose off the front left of the airbox, turn on the stepper activation with Guzzidiag and spray carby cleaner down the hose while goosing the throttle! Repeat unti the stepper works properly! Once the TB's are on the bench it's a pretty simple matter to scrub them clean with carby cleaner and a soft brush and gentle cloth. It's actually quite impressive how much nicer the bike will run after this is done and it's given a proper tune-up.

Thanks for that.

If some clever bod wants to embed it feel free. Sorry about my ugly mug and Doris's helpful assistance....

Perhaps this will work if you can put up with my waffling for twenty minutes? https://youtu.be/BDshMp-bM_0

Tuning sequence for a W5AM is ridiculously simple. Connect manometer and Guzzidiag, (Or whatever diagnostic tooling you use.) After you have set the valve lash to 4thou inlet and 6thou exhaust warm the engine up to >60*C and close both air bleeds. Hold the throttle open so the engine runs at 3,500-4,000 rpm and using the screw on the bell crank on the LH throttlebody balance the manifold depression at 'High Speed'. Once done let the throttle snap shut. Kill the engine with the kill switch and recalibrate the TPS and clear the self learning parameters, (The acquired fuel trims. This is only really necessary if running a closed loop map but just do it anyway.). Restart the motor and whichever side has the higher manifold depression? Open the air bleed on that throttlebody to restore equilibrium. Thats it! That is all there is to tuning a W5AM Guzzi, (Bellagio excepted.). Do NOT try and change the idle speed by messing with the throttle stop screw to close the butterflies of the TB's. The idle speed is hard coded into the map in the ECU and is controlled by an air over idle system with a mechanical air bleed called a stepper motor that stabilises the idle at its 'Target' by adding or subtracting air to influence the idle speed. This is also controlled by the ECU. The 'Target Idle' is adjustable but only within the map using a program like Tunerpro to manipulate it once it has been downloaded from the ECU. Once modified the new map has to be re-uploaded to the ECU. This shouldn't need doing if the bike is mechanically sound and tuned properly. There are few bikes easier to tune than a W5AM Guzzi. It probably takes about the same time as it took me to write this message.

I seem to have problems getting them to size right Phil, that's the biggest issue. I just get told they're too large, no matter what size I try and make them. Probably just me having a 'Senior's Moment'!

OK, firstly you NEVER use pliers on the plug caps of an 8V. To remove the caps you use a long, thin, flat bladed screwdriver poked in through the cooling tunnel above the exhaust manifold in the head and lever them off from underneath. Any sort of twisting or tugging at the tops of the caps is almost certain to cause damage and the spark will then arc to the rocker cover or plug tube preventing the cylinder from firing. This causes a host of problems beyond just stopping the cylinder firing. Unburnt fuel can cause the Catalyser to catch fire or clog and prevent the engine running correctly. Check and/or replace the caps. Use NGK SB05E or F plug caps. The E or F suffix denotes the type of top electrode on the plug. This is cheap and easy. Checking for arcing is best done by removing the plug lead covers on the rocker covers and watching and listening for the spark *Snapping* to earth. Do this after dark preferably, it makes the sparks easier to see. Your question about oil fouling *Something* would not effect the lambda sensor/s. The thing you are thinking about on the 1400 is the MAP, (Manifold absolute pressure.) sensor in the airbox. The W5AM system does not use a MAP sensor. Oil fouling can cause problems but not this one. If you are running a Beetlemap any odd behaviour on the over-run above 2,700 rpm is not related to fuelling as the fuel is turned off above this point at <5* TPS value. When the fuel cuts back in at that point it can cause a single small 'Pop' unless you are running an open pipe in which case it will pop and bang a bit and the fouling won't be very good anyway as none of Mark's maps are built for open pipes or noisy morons. The lumpy idle could well be damaged plug caps or incorrect throttlebody balance or, worst case scenario, monstered throttlebodies. I guess I'll have to take some pics showing what TB's should look like and which screws you can and can't touch. For some reason I can't post pics easily on this board but the mods usually help me out.

OK, by a 'Basic tune up' what exactly did you do? If you balanced the throttlebodies? How? What was the sequence? Did you try and change the idle speed by moving the throttle stop screw/s? Did you re-calibrate the TPS after the balance? When the plug caps were removed to set the valves how was it done?

Whether or not electric is the endgame or simply a stop-gap or stepping stone to another technology it doesn't matter. The important thing is we stop burning and at the same time profligately wasting fossil fuels that are screwing up the ecology of the planet. The mewling about electric vehicles being soulless I find quite funny as over the last two decades ICE vehicles have become ever more anodyne and characterless and 'Smoothness, quietness and ease of driving' are things that are seen as great advances to be lauded so surely for most people a silent electric vehicle would seem to be their ultimate wet dream! Add in the fact, as someone else noted, that the younger generation seems to have no real interest in riding or driving then self driving cars will be seen by many, if not all, as a boon! Hell. You can't even say it's only the 'Younger Generation' given the number of people not many years younger than me who I see yacking it up on the phone or dribbling shit into their social media feeds while they are supposed to be controlling a vehicle! I see no reason at all why an electric bike should be boring. Different? Certainly! But they don't have to be boring. Anyway, to me it's irrelevant as there will be petrol available for my needs for the rest of my life and in all honesty, despite the fact I don't have and am unlikely to have any grandchildren of my own I'd like to think I am not so nihilistic as to say 'F*ck the planet and everybody on it. I've got, (Or had.) mine!'

My guess is if you were to look at one of these maps it would be your typical 'Throw 20% more fuel at it across the map and advance the spark by a degree above 4,000' type items. See it the whole time, it's based on the ridiculous and completely wrong theory that modern engines are 'Mapped lean to get through emissions.'. It makes my brain hurt.

I'm not familiar enough with older hi cams to know but I'd say probably yes.

Hmmm? 107 HP from a V11. Where is the place on the site where you can buy a squadron of pigs?

Usually Docc or someone hauls my tech-less-than-Savvy arse out of the fire on this but pm me your email again, I can't find it, and I'll send them to you direct. everything in the valvetarin, in fact everything in the motor, saps power. Moving something quickly then stopping it quickly and making it go quickly the other way takes energy. The greater the mass the higher the energy required. Havent thought about the valve lash issue. sorry, I'm in the middle of cooking supper!

I was cleaning out the drawer of my bedside table this morning and came across a pair of tappets, (No, I have no real idea why I had tappets in my bedside table drawer, that's just the way it is.) and it makes interesting viewing and probably shows another reason why the 'New' Hi Cam was able to make considerably more grunts than the 'Old' Hi Cam. Now I have problems putting pics up here but I'll try. If it doesn't work I'll have to rely on the good offices of someone more savvy to copy them from my links. Anyway if you can see the pics the larger of the two tappets is from an early Hi-Cam, Daytona/Centauro. The smaller one is a flat tappet from a 'New' Hi-Cam, Griso/Stelvio etc. http://<a href="https://flic.kr/p/2mv7sh6" title=" by -convertpervert-"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51525265357_428f218e93_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt=""></a> <a href="https://flic.kr/p/2mvfgLC" title=" by -convertpervert-"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51526790904_2e1447f54b_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt=""></a> As you can see the earlier tappet is VAST and in fact weighs 54 grams. The later one weighs in at 22 grams. Yes, it has a small pushrod as well that weighs a few grams but the difference is huge! That is an awful lot more mass to be moving and coupled with the extensive use of low friction rolling element bearings in the later engine contributes greatly I'm sure to the greater output of the later motors.

You overestimate my skills and abilities John!