pete roper
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Posts posted by pete roper
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They'd never be able to make competitive 'Modern' power with an OHV set up. The reason the TB/s are central and the exhausts exit on the outer edges of the heads you can tell it's a DOHC set-up as the cams have to run in the same plane as the crank.
if you look at the Caponord 1200 motor you can see a lot of similarities.
I can't do photo's here, I always forget how, but if you look at a Caponord engine in the parts list you can see where the idler gear shaft I and then the two camshafts under the head cover. It's standard Piaggio/Aprilia design and mimics a lot of the engineering in the Rotax motors used in the RSV twins.
I'm looking forward to seeing what else is in the motive unit.
People we're always wingeing that the Gen 2 Hi-Cam *Only* made 100hp. I always found it amazing that it did! It's a very compromised design but it will make 100 rear wheel ponies and not a lot more, no matter what people claim. To get serious HP and meet E5 a DOHC and water cooled powerplant was the only way forward. Unfortunately the forced adoption of OBD II protocols spells the death knell of remapping by aftermarket sources and home tuning. From here on in we're at the mercy of the manufacturers.
Bring on the E bikes and whatever comes after them and let's stand at the stern rail and wave our handkerchiefs in farewell to dirty old fossil fuels! Our grandchildren will thank us.......
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It's interesting that there are already two prototypes. Note that you can't see an obvious exhaust in the picture above while in the 'Spy' pics one is clearly visible on the left of the bike.
The heads haven't been 'Turned', it's just the only real way to run a DOHC system if you keep the longitudinal crank. You could keep it 'Conventional' by driving the cams with bevel towers I suppose but it would be hellishly complex, sap more power and be heavier.
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1 hour ago, Scud said:
@pete roper do you mind explaining exactly what a reactive drive is and how you can tell this bike doesn't have it?
No torque arm from the bevelbox like the Spineframes or, in the case of the CARC bikes, the reactive bridge within the bevelbox. This works to separate the reactive forces of the drive, (As you accelerate/decelerate the pinion tries to climb up or down the crownwheel.) by delivering them directly to the frame. This means that to far greater degree than with a *Fixed* system the drive is separated from the suspension functions meaning a shaft drive bike will handle more like a proper motorbike. It wasn't so important when engines were only making 40-50 hp. Nowadays? Far more important. Looking at this thing there doesn't appear to be a reaction rod and the bevelbox is bolted solidly to the swingarm. The swingarm is very long which is another way of lessening torque reaction but cruder and less effective.
If you look at it holistically it's an interesting package. Seems cam drive is typical Piaggio/Aprilia with a chain to an idler shaft in the head and then the cams geared to the idler, (That is to a degree speculative but the circular *Plug* in the back of the head looks like the idler shaft spindle plug on something like a Shiver or Caponord.)
Throttlebodies in the valley, side exit exhausts as you would have to have with a DOHC design. Downdraft induction means modern power outputs are possible at last. It still looks like the gearbox is behind the engine but there is no recognisable bell housing so maybe a wet multi plate clutch? Where it is positioned will be interesting.
Look, it's, at first glance, a lot better than I was expecting. I was genuinely afraid they were just going to throw a water jacket and an extra plug at the V85 motor which is a miserable little thing. This at least is a *Modern* engine. The styling is neither here nor there. This can be the basis for several platforms and models and Piaggio seem to be following the Aprilia lead established with the CARC bikes of launching the *New* product in a 'Plain Jane' model, (The Breva was the first CARC big block and its styling was not exactly eye catchingly beutiful!)
While I would of preferred something that started the move away from fossil fuel power this is to me the next best option. Will I be buying one? Hell no! I'm very happy with my current fleet and I'll be very surprised if when it's launched here it has a price tag under $25,000. Sorry, I'm not willing to shell out that sort of coin on what I see as a dirty, outdated technology. My current dirty, outdated technology will see me out and I don't owe a penny on it!
I do hope it is a raging success though and spawns many, prettier offshoots.
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Actually better than I expected. A lot of mixed styling cues. I can see lots of of Centauro, some really weird throwbacks to the V75 of the early '80's, (A 750 version of the Lario motor. It was awful. We had one bloke buy one from the shop I worked at in London and it dropped a valve in Reading on his way back to his home in Bristol! It didn't get 80 miles! Hope that isn't a portent!). I need to see more.
I don't like the bevelbox which is obviously styled on the BMW box and worst of all, no reactive drive! Just an enormously long swingarm! What the @#!#$# are they thinking!?!?
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2 hours ago, po18guy said:
If it has a CVT, I'm gonna puke.
What's wrong with CVT? I doubt it will but if they were building a tourer I'd be rapt with a CVT. Like my Mana on steroids!
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I've been trying to find clearer pics from the side but if I squint and hold my tongue at precisely the right angle it does look as though it might have an exhaust pipe coming out of the side of the head and if it does that would indicate a DOHC layout which would be promising. There's enough height in the tank for one or more central throttlebodies as well which would mean downdraft induction and the possibility of modern power outputs.
As I've said I won't be buying one, I'm happy with my current fleet, they'll see me out. If it is a genuinely *New* motive unit though I'll be thrilled.
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I just hope it's something more ambitious than another 2 valve pushrod chuffer with a water jacket.
I too can't believe that they'd invest too much in a redundant technology and no matter what replaces them fossil fuels have to go, no matter what angry old white men say.
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Most people who dismiss the CARC series bikes and especially the 8V's have never ridden one, much less one that is correctly tuned and mapped.
Their loss.
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Stelvio shock is longer and has a bit more travel. It's a good 'Budget' replacement for the inadequate original and helps quicken up the steering as well.
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Drop over to Grisoghetto for all the fun facts from fellow CARC bike fetishists.
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Swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings will need attention.
Enjoy.
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Sounds familiar......
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Come now! Can you not appreciate it's stainless steel prison toilet chic?
If you want to scream 'Meth head' to the world this, surely this is the ride for you?!
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Or you could just do what this plank did to an 1100 Sport-I!
Be careful. Your gorge will rise!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144161187663?hash=item2190ad274f:g:w1QAAOSwHvthHgrz
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6 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
Moneys changing everything. My friend moved to a small rural "boutique" town about 20 years ago, a 6 hour drive from Sydney. Lovely town, eclectic mix of locals, it's own specific economy, tolerant welcoming warm people and great weather. I used to go there for a break on their farm from my stressful city job. Kept me sane more than once. Then it got popular with the big city folk that sold up and moved up there. Problem is when they arrive and settle in they eventually take over the local council and destroy the original charm of the place by modernising it and turning it into a suburb of the city they've recently left. A small intimate old world architecture country town now with a planned 3 story modern building with a supermarket on the ground floor right in the middle of it. Go figure. You move to a place because of the charm, elegance and lifestyle, then set about destroying it. Cashed up Bogans.
Ciao
You could be talking about Bungendore Phil. When I moved here in '87 you could stand at the end of the main drag and fire a 303 down the middle of the road and the only thing you'd be likely to hit would be a dog licking its balls in the road outside one of the pubs!
Fast forward 34 years and if you even attempted it you'd perforate three 'Yummy Mummies' in yoga pants in their Range Rover *Grocery Getters*, several besuited pinheads who look like real estate agents, (And probably are!) and thirty cashed up, bogan, Tradies queueing up at the many 'Boutique' coffee shops to get their pie and iced coffee, (What is it with Tradies and iced coffee??) before heading off the Jerry-build another two hundred identical McMansions in the flood prone swamps the developers have bribed council into allowing them to build on!
Thank all that's holy I live opposite the cemetery! I think even our council might find it hard to allow the developers free hand to build on someone else's Aunty Mavis!
At least my sociopathic neighbour has pissed off at last and been replaced by a seemingly pleasant and friendly young woman who doesn't make endless, incessant, angle grinding noises and deliberately damage our property! Hooray!
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There is no drum to be shimmed on the four shafter as the selector forks are moved by geared cam plates. If you have the cover off, for spring replacement for example, it's worth de-burring the grooves the forks run in. That tends to help quicken up and smooth the selection.
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3 minutes ago, Kane said:
Is the V7 you are referring to an earlier 1970’s 5 speed bikes or one of the later 6 speed small block bikes?
All the smallblocks used very similar gearboxes right up until the advent of the V7-II in 2015/16, (From memory?). The Smallblock six speed was a huge improvement over the five speed which is unsurprising as it was a gearbox from a very different, and distant, time.
The big block five speed, especially if used in conjunction with a heavy flywheel, does NOT liked to be hurried. Even if shifted with sympathy it still makes a nose like someone dropping a brick in a bucket. This can be improved by correctly shimming the shift drum but even then it will remain ponderous compared to any of the *Modern* six speed boxes.
A well set up four shaft box from a V11 is a glorious thing, they can be almost Suzuki like, which is a compliment. The later CARC six speeds are still a good box and are seemingly unbreakable but still suffer the "Make a noise like wheelbarrows fornicating" noise when selecting first at a standstill.
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All of the Cali 1100's wear the famous 'Flaccid Whale Penis' petrol tank which, in my view, detracts from their appearance.
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2 hours ago, LowRyter said:
So no one thinks the 1400 is the ultimate big block?
Some people love 'em. I really tried to like mine but in the end I couldn't. Subjectively 'Cruisers' don't press my buttons. Objectively, compared to other similarly styled and purposed machines it falls down on a number of levels.
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Earlier, flat tappet, versions of the engine had minor camming differences. Once the roller system was adopted all 1200 motors became effectively the same. The 1400 motor has substantial differences to the 1200 but uses the same cams.
Scud, the Sport 1200 is a much *Softer* motorbike than the Griso and is a lot less 'Sporty'. It's essentially just a Breva with handlebars and a small fairing. That isn't to say it's a bad bike. Far from it. But if you want 'Sporty' starting off with the Griso platform is a far better bet.
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Griso is, without doubt, the ultimate iteration of the big block and what a glorious swan song it is.
No, it doesn't speak to everyone and in stock trim is far from perfect but once mapped and suspended properly it is a 'Road' bike without peer.
I like mine so much I bought another one in case something happens to my original one!
I won't be buying another IC engined motorbike, at least not to keep, so my Grisos will be my swan song as well as Guzzi's as the firm now seems to be wandering off rudderless into the world of bland, uninspiring and uninteresting *Nothing* bikes.
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McDonalds hamburgers are a commercial success. It doesn't mean they are any good.........
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Behold! A turd that has been rolled in glitter!
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Well whatever caused it it is comprehensively 'Donald Ducked'. The timing chest and probably the crankcase are smashed. With that sort of twisting and energy from the impact I'd guess there may well be other casing damage as well. You'd want to check the forks very carefully as well.
In all honesty $2K is a big ask. It was a nice bike. Note the tense.......
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Moto Guzzi V100
in Newer models
Posted
Nah. It handles like what it is, a pretty good early 1970's chassis. I'm not knocking it. I think the Tonti frame was a brilliant design for it's day. The world has moved on a long way though.