How good are your brakes?

[MixxedupMedia]

I'm the new owner of a 2002 V11 Scura.

 

I am wondering if someone can give me some idea of what to expect of the bike's brakng system. The PO had new pads installed in the front recently. A full system flush was also performed (all at a dealer). he bike only has 4300 mi; the rotors are stock and look in good shape. There is no vibration or chatter under extreme braking.

 

By comparison, I also ride a 2008 BMW R1200 GSA, a slightly heavier bike, but with noticeably better braking performance (mainly front). It takes less lever pressure, overall.

 

I also recently sold a 2003 Ducati 749, again, with better braking performance.

 

The Scura reminds me of a 2002 BMW R1150 GS in terms of braking, well, maybe just slightly better.

 

I guess I was expecting slightly better performance, a little less lever pressure to scrub off speed quickly.

 

I realize these comparisons are a bit subjective, but if anyone else out there has ridden similar bikes, it would be interesting to know how you think a V11 stacks up.

 

And, if anyone has suggestions on how to improve the braking, let me know.

[Guzzirider]

Brakes are normally a strong point on a V11 but remember it's a heavy bike- ignore the factory claims because a V11 Le Mans weighs about 270kg with fluids.

If you feel the need to upgrade you could fit a Brembo radial MC to give a bit more power- I'm doing this for my Daytona project.

 

But assuming there is nothing wrong your brakes may be worth simply riding the bike and getting used to it.

 

When I had an Ohlins V11 I liked to have the compression damping on the front forks wound up reasonably stiff to counter fork dive under heavy braking.

[gstallons]

Unless someone makes a cast iron rotor for the bike, live with it. The reports of radial master cylinders being better I would have to see for myself.

[Admin Jaap]

Cast iron rotors are available. I've seen them on a German V11. Sadly I haven't got a clue on manufacturer. You could check also early Aprilia RSV replacements. They are the same.

Or order some cheapo Chinese stuff, that'll probably rust

[Bjor]

...or contact ISR Brakes in Stockholm, www.isrbrakes.se/ . It's a small enterprise run by enthusiasts. They are not very fast and not very expensive, but they make excellent stuff that bites very well. I have a set of disks on my 992 Le Mans, together with a pair of Brembo Oros. I am VERY pleased with them.

[gstallons]

Cast iron rotors are available. I've seen them on a German V11. Sadly I haven't got a clue on manufacturer. You could check also early Aprilia RSV replacements. They are the same.

Or order some cheapo Chinese stuff, that'll probably rust

[/q

Don't worry, the expensive ones rust too!

[luhbo]

Brakes are normally a strong point on a V11 but remember it's a heavy bike- ...

 

That's exactly what came to my mind, too, when I initially read the above question.

More bite than the stock Brembo pads offer can deliver Lucas Sinter ones. I had them in once and found them on one hand very progressive, but also rather temperature dependend and, very annoying, rather unforgiving in case you had your eyes elsewhere and therefore screw in a bit in a hurry. Compared to the Lucas the Brembos feel dull but very linear. Take it as some sort of mechanical ABS

 

Hubert

[Trevini]

 

By comparison, I also ride a 2008 BMW R1200 GSA, a slightly heavier bike, but with noticeably better braking performance (mainly front). It takes less lever pressure, overall.

 

I also recently sold a 2003 Ducati 749, again, with better braking performance.

 

The Scura reminds me of a 2002 BMW R1150 GS in terms of braking, well, maybe just slightly better.

 

 

 

 

Am I right in thinking that both the BMWs you mention have servo assisted brakes? If so, that would be why they needed much less pull on the lever. Likewise, the 749 is a much lighter bike with more or less the same braking system as the V11, so is bound to be better. As has already been said, the V11 is a lardy beggar and needs a good pull on the lever to stop it. That said, they work well enough for the performance of the bike unless you ride like Rossi all the time.

 

As far as improvements are concerned, give it a good overhaul and fit decent quality pads.

 

Trev

[tikkanen]

Unless someone makes a cast iron rotor for the bike, live with it. The reports of radial master cylinders being better I would have to see for myself.

 

 

 

Cast iron rotors are available. I've seen them on a German V11. Sadly I haven't got a clue on manufacturer. You could check also early Aprilia RSV replacements. They are the same.

Or order some cheapo Chinese stuff, that'll probably rust

 

There are cast iron rotors available for V11: Check out Brake Tech's homepage: Brake Tech

 

Just bought a pair and fitted them on my Scura. Haven't tried them in action yet, obviously, but they look the part. Company is VERY professionel in business so I can only recommend them. Price is around 700$ + you need a pair of special Ferrodo brake pads.

See my correspondance with Jeff Gehrs below:

 

Cheers

Søren

 

 

Thank you for the inquiry Soeren.

 

The advanced design AXIS™ full-floaters offer substantially improved performance in terms of both modulation at the lever and overall braking power. The patented advanced floating system of the AXIS series full-floaters is many times stronger than conventional semi-floating brake rotors. The heart of this patented design has the floater buttons controlling radial and axial float only, they are non-load bearing. All of the considerable braking forces are channeled through the trademarked Direct-Link™ architecture comprising over an 800% increase in surface area load transfer as compared to conventional floating brake rotors...simply a far superior design!

 

See our website for more details on the unique and high-tech features of these top performers. We offer them in both our traditional race-spec Ductile Iron as well as the new AXIS/Cobra series which is an optimized petal style with none of the downside problems associated with the Wave type rotors.

 

Plus we are the first major brake rotor manufacturer to include hi-tech Cryogenic processing on the entire line of performance rotors as a standard operational component of manufacture. The inclusion of this advanced technologically employing computer controlled, 40 hour deep freezing treatment provides greater thermal stability along with improved wear resistance.

 

Iron provides a higher coefficient of friction over stainless, with more feel and feedback at the brake lever. But get them wet - they're going to rust. If you're a fair weather rider like me, then it's a non-event and not an issue. However, if you ride distances where inclement weather is a definite possibility, you're better off with our AXIS/Cobra™ stainless steel series in the optimized petal design. The units below are of the Brembo 6-hole mounting configuration for your Moto Guzzi LeMans:

 

AXIS/IRON Front Floaters - Ductile Iron

• BTD-10.L & R; 320mm x 5mm, $349.95 ea.

 

AXIS/COBRA Front Floaters - Stainless Steel

• BTD-10.SL & SR; 320mm x 5mm, $329.95 ea.

 

 

On to the latest in advanced composite technology: In the simplest of terms, think of the new generation AXIS/CMC™ ceramic matrix composite rotors in this way - anything Carbon/carbon brakes can do, CMC does better: they're lighter, lasts many times longer, perform flawlessly when stone-cold, brilliant in the wet (C/c cannot be run in wet), works with OE calipers and the race-spec Billet GP type, brake pads are relatively inexpensive and all for much less money! Their incredible light-weight and high performance parameters make them ideal for both top level racing and canyon carving as well.

When considering the purchase of this advanced technology system, bear in mind, it's not simply a braking improvement, but a substantial handling improvement too! The reduction in gyroscopic forces is nothing short of amazing!!!

 

Pls also be advised, the CMC outer blades are a very limited production item at this time, so availability is relatively low. The new third generation development is nearing completion, we hope to have this incredible brake system available again relatively soon.

 

AXIS/CMC™ - Ceramic Matrix Composite

• BTCD-10.L & R; 320mm x 5mm CMC, $1600 ea. (special pads not included)

 

Comparative weight (Ducati/Brembo):

• 320mm x 5.0mm AXIS/CMC for your bike, 1lb 7.7oz

• 320mm x 5.0mm AXIS/Iron for the 916, 3lbs 2.0oz

• 320mm x 4.5mm Brembo OE stainless rotor [alum ctr version], 3lbs 4.7 oz

• 320mm x 4.0mm Brembo OE stainless rotor [steel ctr version], 4lbs 2.6 oz

 

 

Although not an ultra high friction compound, the Platinum™ organic pads have the most feel and modulation at the brake lever and is the Number One performing organic road friction material for a broad cross-section of street bikes. Developed from technology gained from Ferodo's World Racing program, the Platinum compound offers excellent all-around braking response with a co-efficient of friction level that is both linear and consistent.For real-world street use with stainless steel or iron rotors, we recommend the high performance Platinum pads as they are remarkably user friendly offering great overall power and modulation for those that do not prefer a high level initial bite. The result is superb feel and feedback at the brake lever with the added benefit of low abrasion which is very kind to brake rotors

 

The Platinum organic compound is also the dominant material used extensively in both MotoGP and World Superbike as "the" rear brake pad due to its incredible feedback and added control it delivers at the pedal. AHRMA Vintage class roadracing is yet another venue where the Platinum organic provides an optimal blend of power and control for a large cross-section of these classic series race bikes.

 

• FDB2042P; Platinum organic - Brembo twin-pin, $33.95 per caliper

 

 

SinterGrip ST:

Ferodo HH-rated SinterGrip ST brake pads represent the very latest in leading edge technology of sintered metal friction design. These new pads provide outstanding performance not only in setting the standard for all-out braking power, but in truly remarkable feel and feedback as well. Designed to be kind to stainless rotors, this advanced composition friction material allows the wheel to spin much more freely in comparison to other HH brand brake pads that create a power robbing and excessive brake drag situation on the rotor. The updated FERODO SinterGrip pads offer incredible stopping power combined with precision control, minimal brake drag, lower operating temperature and quick bed-in for a significant improvement in overall performance.

 

• FDB2042ST; SinterGrip ST, street and strip, $38.95 per caliper

 

 

SinterGrip XRAC:

Ferodo Racing has updated the well renown SinterGrip XRAC with an all-new formulation. Over a year in development, this new sintered metal race compound features a higher peak coefficient of friction than its predecessor while providing even more feel and modulation at the lever for greater control entering tricky corners under trail braking. A rising torque curve increases power when needed most in severe braking conditions. Improved thermal stability provides greater lap to lap repeatability to allow racers to consistently hit the same brake marker with inspiring confidence. Also features the trademarked Array Cooling™ technology to reduce interface temperatures under severe thermal load conditions. This remarkable new race compound is extremely powerful, but marries user friendly torque characteristics that provide late braking consistency, lap after lap. This compound features special adaptations making it not only compatible on the CMC rotors, but a terrific performer as well.

 

• FDB2042XRAC; Brembo twin-pin Race, $72.95 per caliper

 

 

CP2.11 Carbon/ceramic:

Also new is the long awaited and brilliant performing CP2.11 organic series race pads. This replaces the popular and long standing CP911Star carbon/metallic pads with an entirely new friction composition technology incorporating advanced Siloxane polymers into a truly innovative Carbon/ceramic matrix. This is not a case of simply adding ceramic particulates (friction modifiers) to the mix but rather and a new and different approach how organic composition racing brake pads operate. Provides tremendous power and control at the brake lever with a predictable and reassuring rising torque curve for that added power, deep into a corner – whenever you need it, time after time. Performs brilliantly on stainless and even better on our Ductile Iron brake rotors. Plus very low abrasion as well.

 

• FDB2042CP211; Brembo twin-pin Race, $57.95 per caliper

 

Both are CMC compatible materials.

 

 

If you are not already equipped, another area for improvement is with the new generation of radial pump master cylinders. The increased piston size along with the substantial increase in leverage ratio makes for a truly significant performance improvement you can immediately feel every time you pull the lever! The 19 x 18mm units from Nissin include two different perches depending on your need as well as an integral brakelight switch. They are priced at $229.95 in either black or gold. A matching clutch radial pump is available as well (gold only).

 

Hope this answers most of your questions.

Thanks again,

 

 

 

Jeff Gehrs

BrakeTech USA

+1 951-471-3476 ph

+1 951-471-3536 fax

www.braketech.com

 

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On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Soeren Tikkanen wrote:

This is an enquiry e-mail via http://www.braketech.com/ from:

Soeren Tikkanen

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Can I get a quotation for a pair of Axis Iron Rotors for my Moto Guzzi V11 Le Mans Scura, please? It's a 2002 model with Öhlin forks and OEM Brembo rotors (320mm Ø)

 

I thank you in advance.

 

Yours sincerely

Søren Tikkanen

[gstallons]

Uhhhh, somebody's done their homework !

[Slavomir Musilek (R.I.P.)]

I used OEM rotors with Brembo OEM pads and Acosato radial master pump, it worked on track without problem, with race pads it was even better.

 

As somebody already mentioned above me, the feel from brakes is closely related to setup of your front suspension

[MixxedupMedia]

I definitely still need to do a proper suspension setup. Maybe that will provide a different feel.

 

Not saying the brakes are bad, just not as aggressive as I might like them. Then again, I could just get used to this bike as is.

 

Some interesting solutions here. I will probably bleed the system over the winter, put in some fresh fluid and check the pads, maybe just replace them even tho they are supposed to be new. The previous owner told me that his forks leaked a a bit before they were overhauled (and the brake job followed that). But it is possible there is residual oil on the pads.

 

 

 

I used OEM rotors with Brembo OEM pads and Acosato radial master pump, it worked on track without problem, with race pads it was even better.

 

As somebody already mentioned above me, the feel from brakes is closely related to setup of your front suspension

[rex007can]

I don't understand.

I have a 2001 with stock breaks.

I can lock the front with two fingers and have the scars to prove it.

 

Stock breaks are more powerful than tire grip...with two fingers.

What more do you need?

[Mike Stewart]

I have tried many pads and am the most happy with the HH compound from many brake manufactures. This is the cheapest solution!

 

Mike

[v11cafe]

Though V11 brakes lack initial strong bite, they are strong

 

When traction, tires etc is good, lack of initial strong bite gives you the advantage to break heavy right from the beginning.

 

It is a heavy bike, true,

but brakes are OK once you get used to the way they perform.