03 V11 runs like crap

[GuzziMoto]

I have had three Lithium batteries from two different manufacturers. All three were modern latest gen lithium batteries. I don't really want to call out names of the manufacturers, I don't want to sound like I am bashing. Maybe I can get away with saying that the two brands were two of the top brands currently in the market place.

All three of the batteries lasted for less than two years each. All three of the batteries had issues at times starting the bikes they were installed in. One of them was in my Griso and, while it worked well at first, as soon as it got cool temp wise it would not start my Griso. My Griso was not one of the latter gen Guzzi's were you could hold the starter button down to put the battery under a load. Maybe it will work better on bikes that allow you to do that.

And finally, all three batteries had issues holding a charge long term. Part of that may have been due to the motorcycles the batteries were installed in, like the Griso has a low draw from the electronics, but part of that seemed to be from the batteries reduced capacity. I don't have issues with the same bikes using AGM batteries.

I like the idea of a lithium battery. But, for me, in actual practice I have had better luck with quality AGM batteries. The AGM batteries last far longer, have more power, and are more reliable, at least in my experience. The extra weight of an AGM, or the light weight of a lithium battery, is certainly a factor as well. But to me, saving a few pounds on a 500 pound motorcycle is not something I can get excited about. I could not tell by riding it that my Griso had a lighter weight battery any more than I can tell that the fuel tank is 3/4 full or 1/2 full.

This is all just my experience, and clearly others are more impressed than I am. I just hope you, or anyone else here, have better luck than I did. I will probably try one in the future, but it will likely not be on a Guzzi. I have an Aprilia I am building, it weighs just over three hundred pounds, and the light weight might make a difference there.

[Gottagetone]

Sorry to hear about your experience to date with your batteries.  your post above is great and the center of much of my concern.  My current battery is a Scorpion YTX15L.  While searching for batteries a couple years ago it appeared that there are many companies selling batteries but most appear to come from one or two manufacturers with a different badge.  My current battery is rated at 13ah with 230cca.

 

I looked at a number of LiFEPo type batteries including the Antigravity brand that Revival uses in all their builds.  They are local to me and I considered going over and just picking one up from them.  Turns out the one they sell is not rated for a street bike of over 800cc.  Antigravity does have a larger capacity battery but after researching a bit more I decided to go with the Deltran.

 

The recommended Deltran is much smaller than the stock battery and pushes 240cca at a 10-14ah.  Since my main issue is cold start with my current battery, the Scorpion just won't cut it when the temp drops and needs to be on a battery tender to even have a shot at holding a charge, I went with the bigger, in size and power, 300 LCA battery.  It is the same size as the current battery but pumps out 300cca and comes with a three year warranty.  

 

The battery, charger, quick connect and USB  charger option will be here this week.  Its a bit cold here in Austin, Texas now so I plan on charging the battery before install then not connecting it to the charger to see how it reacts to the first cold start of the day.  

[GuzziMoto]

If your main concern is starting when the temps are low, that is one of the inherent weaknesses of lithium batteries and may be an issue for you.

I find the ratings for lithium batteries very optimistic. Buy oversize. Their ratings don't really seem to match eye to eye with AGM battery ratings.

Being in Texas you may not have the same issues with temperature that I did. But I was having issues when the temps were in the 40's and the bike was cold from overnight, having been in the 30's.

Good luck with the lithium battery.

[docc]

Good stuff. Thanks for posting, guys!

I think it's poignant that battery condition/type/charging is such a prominent topic in "How a V11 Runs."

[Walterg]

Sorry guys but what does "cca" stand for ?

[stewgnu]

cold cranking amps?

[docc]

For reference, the original V11 fitment AGM has 150 CCA.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I measured mine, I have seen 160 Amps, so 200 would be more than enough.

For those with the fancy new battery I think the CCA is much lower until the battery warms up.

 

I assume a battery with higher CCA maintains a higher Voltage while cranking.

 

Although Cottagetone's Deltran will put out more current it's still only 14 AH the same as most

of the AGM types.

14AH / 160 Amps = 0.0875 Hours

or 5 minutes cranking time

[nobleswood]

Docc & Kiwi-Roy,

 

Winter is now here in Ohio, so I'm taking my bike apart to tweek, adjust and fiddle with, cos I'm not going to be riding for a few months.

 

Give me your advice in basic terms for battery health. I was thinking ; leave the ignition on, which turns on the headlight, to drain the battery. Or discharge as you say. Though that makes me think of firing a gun, something dramatic like putting a wrench accross the terminals !

 

Taking the battery off the bike, as I'm working on it, and putting it on the battery charger on a trickle charge for the winter.

 

How's that sound?

[docc]

Docc & Kiwi-Roy,

 

Winter is now here in Ohio, so I'm taking my bike apart to tweek, adjust and fiddle with, cos I'm not going to be riding for a few months.

 

Give me your advice in basic terms for battery health. I was thinking ; leave the ignition on, which turns on the headlight, to drain the battery. Or discharge as you say. Though that makes me think of firing a gun, something dramatic like putting a wrench accross the terminals !

 

Taking the battery off the bike, as I'm working on it, and putting it on the battery charger on a trickle charge for the winter.

 

How's that sound?

Use a quality digital voltmeter and record the existing voltage, turn the bright headlamp on for a few minutes and record where the voltage settles.

 

This gives you a baseline for what the battery will need to give it a full state of charge before putting it on "trickle" (*float charge*).

 

Once you get your baseline voltages, let's discuss charging. Then you can measure the voltage your "trickle" charger puts out (conventional trickle chargers typically use too low of a voltage to keep an AGM at full state of charge (13.5-13.8).

 

No dramatic sparks, please!

[Kiwi_Roy]

Nothing to add, I just throw mine on charge for a few hours a couple of times over winter.

 

 

Sent from my shoe phone!

[Gottagetone]

I measured mine, I have seen 160 Amps, so 200 would be more than enough.

For those with the fancy new battery I think the CCA is much lower until the battery warms up.

 

I assume a battery with higher CCA maintains a higher Voltage while cranking.

 

Although Cottagetone's Deltran will put out more current it's still only 14 AH the same as most

of the AGM types.

14AH / 160 Amps = 0.0875 Hours

or 5 minutes cranking time

 

Hey Roy, I went back and read that I had not put the ah number for the battery that I purchased but rather only mentioned the number for the smaller one.  The one that will be here on Friday runs 16-18ah.  If I understand it correctly the ah number represents a deeper cycle meaning that it will last longer under draw?

[Walterg]

Thanks Stewgnu. It all makes sence now  

[Kiwi_Roy]

The Amp Hour rating tells you how much capacity it has when it's fully charged, more to do with the size of the plates I think. A 16 AH battery should be able to deliver 16 Amps for 1 hour or 1 Amp for 16 hours, 4 Amps for 4 hours etc. (I'm sure there is an optimum rate)

The CCA rating gives you an idea how fast it can deliver. I'm sure Wikipedia explains it better than I can.

 

 

Sent from my shoe phone!

[Zach Preston]

 

 

Thanks Kiwi-Roy, that is exactly what we did. My buddy the electrician helped my install a resistor in place of the sensor, so the bike thinks it's 80 degrees. FIXED IT! Runs great. So the air temperature sensor plays a big part in telling the computer the mixture to use, and at zero resistance, by V11 thought it was 120 degrees outside, and leaned the mixture accordingly. Thanks everyone for all your help. My sanity has returned, and my wife and kidds are happy for that!

Great result. The perplexing thing to me is the symptoms manifested on the one cylinder. Would never have suspected the temperature sensor - or is that how they all work?

 

No idea, but I know it was backfireing out of the left side because I took the airbox off and could see and hear it. Every time it backfired you could feel it in the throttle grip. Yes, very strange indeed, but thankful it is fixed!

 

Thank you for all the effort you put into resolving this issue!  I had the exact same issue and was hugely relieved both that there was a straightforward and inexpensive solution.  I replaced my air sensor today after months of dealing with the back/misfire.  The only time it didn't do this was on warmer days.  Since I bought it in late fall last year and it's only now spring, there hasn't been many warm days.