03 V11 runs like crap

[Gottagetone]

Ill give it a shot....I got things balanced using the sync rod.  Ill screw the air bleed screws in then 3/4 turn out and see what happens.

[Kiwi_Roy]

So I got everything disconnected and the TPS was measuring 397, I was able to reset that and got it to a 154...very touchy to do but I was quite happy to get that number.  

 

I then connected the manometer and reconnected the sync rod and left the RH idle screw alone.  Started the bike and with some effort was able to balance the TBs.  I then adjusted the LH idle screw to show .52V and it brought the idle up to about 2300.  I started opening the air bypass crews and it started backfiring into the LH intake and no amount of opening the air bleed screws would bring the idle down.  The only thing that brought the idle down was backing way off the LH idle screw to a reading of about .19V.  

 

Frustrated....any suggestion?

Just start again, you did something wrong.

You set the TPS to 154 with the RH butterfly fully closed, that's good

 

There are several ways of adjusting the balance but they all end up the same

 

Heres what I do for my high milage V11

 

A) Close both butterfly fully, there's a gap between the end of the screw and the butterfly lever.

 

B ) Then screw the idle screws in until they just touch the throttle without opening it, I use a strip of paper as a feeler between the screw and lever setting

the screws so they just grip the paper.

Remember the linkage is still off and the fast idle cam is backed off, flicking the butterfly you can hear it slapping against the throttle body

 

C) Open the air bypass screws 3/4 to 1 turn, doesn't matter as long as they are both the same 

Now you have both butterflys fully closed and the air bleeds both open the same, the throttles are balanced would you agree (both closed)?

 

D) Wind in both idle screws by the same no of flats, start with 1 full turn, try to start, turn both in a bit more until its idling about 1000 revs

The linkage is still off at this point.

 

E) Now you can attach the manometer, it should be fairly close to balanced, tweak it one way or the other with one of the idle screws.

So now it's perfectly balanced with the linkage off right? 

 

F) Now adjust the white knob so that the sync rod can drop on to the ball without opening either left or right throttles If you start the bike it's still

balanced unless the linkage is under tension.

 

G) Blip the throttle, the manometer will likely drift off a bit, if it does adjust the white knob a little, when you let the bike come back to idle it might

be a little out so use one of the air bleeds to bring it back

 

I realize using both idle screws is frowned on but I found my bike never idles at the same spot twice unless the butterflies are sitting on a hard stop

If you prefer to use just the left one, drop the linkage on when both sides are fully closed at point C)

 

I think its safe to say that everyone finds the procedure confusing at first all we are trying to do is get the same amount of air into each cylinder

by having the same throttle opening, this we do by comparing the vacuum from one side to the other.

 

Think of the air bleed screws like a tiny throttle in parallel to the main butterfly, they are so small they have little effect past idle.

Opening them both air bleeds together will effect the idle speed,

Opening or closing just one air bleed will effect the balance and to a lesser degree idle speed.

Opening one while closing the other will maintain the idle speed while effecting the balance.

The white knob sets the angle of one butterfly to the other, at any given throttle opening the angle should be the same. 

[Gottagetone]

Thanks Roy, ill give it a shot tomorrow.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Reading back through the thread, I like the way Scud wrote up his method in a different thread

It's a little different from the way I did it but the end results are the same.

I copied it below.

 

The Scud Method

Given this is still my first attempt at tuning a V11, and after reading two sets of instructions, with different sequences, I tried to merge them. Following are my steps, including one that was not on either set of instructions (the Mechanical Balance). I got the idea from something Luhbo mentioned (can't recall where).

 

Tuning Procedure

 

Mechanical Baseline

1. Set intakes to .006” and exhausts to .008”
2. Fresh and correctly gapped spark plugs, clean air filter, clean throttle bodies, etc.

TPS Baseline

1. Connect TPS Breakout harness and voltmeter.
2. Back off cold idle speed cam (aka choke cam).
3. Disconnect throttle connecting rod under RH throttle body.
4. Back off RH idle speed screw so it does not touch.
5. Turn on ignition (don’t start).
6. Adjust TPS to read 150mv (turn the TPS unit to adjust).
7. Adjust RH idle speed screw to desired TPS setting: (465mv for Kit Racing ECU on 2002/03 bikes; 521mv for stock ECU; 550mv for Kit Racing ECU on 2001 bikes)
8. Disconnect TPS breakout harness (reconnect wires on bike).
9. Reconnect throttle connecting rod and set LH idle screw so it just makes contact with lever.

Warm up the bike, then turn it off. Have a fan available for airflow during remaining tests.

 

Low Speed Vacuum Balance

1. Connect manometer or other vacuum gauge.
2. Close air bypass screws.
3. Disconnect throttle connecting rod.
4. Start engine.
5. Adjust LH idle speed screw until cylinders are balanced.
6. Stop engine.

Mechanical Balance (note that this step may not be necessary if bike was already in decent tune)

1. Reconnect throttle connecting rod.
2. Adjust white balance knob until both throttle stop levers make contact to the idle screws. Use the smallest feeler gauge available until it has the same sliding friction on both sides.

High Speed Balance:

1. Start engine.
2. Test balance at 2-3,000 RPM
3. Adjust white balance knob for balance at 2-3,000 RPM.
4. Stop engine.

Final Idle Speed and Balance

1. Open air bypass screws the same amount on each side. I used 1/2 turn.
2. Start engine.
3. Adjust the air bypass screws until balance is achieved at the desired idle speed. (note - I left one side at 1/2 turn and opened the other side until balance was achieved, this way, both bypass screws will by open a minimum of 1/2 turn)
4. Use LH idle screw to increase idle speed to desired level - (consider adjusting RH idle screw until it makes contact to lever)
5. Stop engine.

Get Done

1. Disconnect Manometer.
2. Reattach caps or hoses to vacuum test ports.
3. Reset the cold idle (aka choke) cam.
4. Clean up and go for a ride.
5.  

[Gottagetone]

Thanks Roy, that is exactly what I was looking for.  I am hopeful to get this done today but after the backfiring that was going on yesterday while making the adjustments I am not convinced this will fix the problem....I will certainly make me feel better that it has eliminated a cause.  

 

Fingers crossed!

[czakky]

If you got this process 100% right the first time we kick you off the forum.....

The only other thing I would recommend is giving a blast of carb cleaner down the TBs to make sure they are in fact completely closed. I think Docc recommended that to me and it threw my TPS off something like 30-40mv.

[Gottagetone]

No worries about the czakky, I got to the mechanical balance point and reconnecting the rod and getting the stops to just barely hit the idle screws is driving me up the wall.....

[docc]

If it were me, I'd delete the right hand idle screw.

 

 

Use the white knob to balance and the left hand screw to set the idle.

 

Scud has a good procedure there. Yet 1/2 turn air screws never worked for me, always ending up back at a bout one full turn out from closed (remove them and clean them).

[gstallons]

My 2 cents ....you will want both idle speed screws to be holding the throttle plates off the bores of the throttle bodies .  This keeps unwanted wear from the plates and bores .

When I remember my procedure and adjustments I will report it . Getting old is NOT fun.

[Gottagetone]

everything up to the reconnecting the sync rod went well.  I was able to get at 153mv with all disconnected then a 521mv after.  Sync of the LH cylinder took a couple try as my homemade meter wanted to suck the fluid to the left pretty hard but Its now even.  

 

After messing with the sync rod and running out of time for the day I started it and it was idling at over 2k rpm...bunk.  I have to figure out the sync rod setting then get my idle down to around 1000 rpms.

[docc]

Although the white knob is on the left, it simply synchronizes the two throttle bodies so that they pull the same vacuum. As they come into synch, your idle may go up. Simply back off the idle stop screw to get it to idle where you want (~1050 +/-). Changing the air screws also will affect idle speed.

 

Leaving off the RH screw while you do this hurts nothing and makes the setting approachable. If you wish to set the RH idle stop screw, you can do this last. If the linkage is sloppy and absolutely requires both idle stop screws, the right hand end connector may be worn or damaged; easy replacement with Volvo or Mercedes part.

 

Also, make certain your high idle cam is not fouling the right side making for an artificially high idle.

[Gottagetone]

Thanks for the input docc.  This info seems to go against the TPS baseline instructions as well as the Micha method instructions.  It seems that almost everyone has a different way to get this job done.  

[Scud]

You're almost there. It does seem there are multiple paths to the same destination.

 

The white knob adjustment at high RPMs should take care of your balance while riding. The air bleed screws and idle screws are about getting a nice, smooth idle.

 

It took me a few tries, that's why I wrote up the instructions - partly so I can remember what do next time, and hopefully to help somebody else. I think I mentioned before - but it's possible that I have a step or two in there that doesn't make a difference.

 

But my favorite step is "clean up and go for a ride." Make sure not to skip that step.

[Meinolf]

Hi Gentlemen,

 

You're almost there. It does seem there are multiple paths to the same destination.

 

looking at above comments makes me wonder if the destination is the same for all...

 

The targets (achievable with this procedure) are:

1) Baseline the TPS and the BIN

2) Remove any mechanical play at idle  and the with the throttle open

3) Achieve a stable idle at the desired rpm using the 2 influencing factors at your disposal

 

The steps neccessary to achieve above targets are:

1) Set the TPS to 156mV with the throttle valves fully closed. No more voltage measurements are neccessary after this has been done

2) Sync the cylinders using left and right throttle stop screws with the throttle closed.

    Sync the cylinders with the throttle opened. It doesn't matter how much opened, as long as the mechanical play is taken out of the equation.

3) Set the desired idle using both bypass screws and both idle stop screws.

    It doesn't matter (there is no defined target value) how much the bypass screws are opened.

    It doesn't matter (there is no defined target value) how much the two idle stop screws are turned in.

 

What are the results:

1) The ECU receives the voltage from the TPS (which it translates into degrees of throttle opening) which directs it to use the proper values in the diversity of maps using the TPS setting. These are the fuel maps, the

    ignition map and a diversity of correction tables

2) The mechanical play of all mechanical parts is taken out of the equation and cylinders are synchronized to work at throttle openings which provide identical power (which is indicated by the same pressure as

    measured with the sync tool). Less vibrations also.

3) A stable idle at the desired speed.

 

Which factors influence 3):

The 2 factors which influence this are air passing through the throttle body and the amount of injected fuel, (Ignition time also does, but that's a separate topic)

Air is influenced by throttle opening and bypass opening.

Fuel injected is based on fuel map values and setting of CO trim.

The relationship of air and fuel is AFR. The best power is at an AFR of 12.64, which means the engine turns over fastest with this mixture.

 

If the engine turns to slow at idle, it can be to lean or to rich.

If it's to lean, add more fuel by changing the CO trim. A better way is to change the fuel map value, as this does not influence the mixture at other TPS/rpm points. But you need a WBO2 or a CO tester to measure this.

If it's to rich, add more air or decrease fuel. Adding more air is achieved by throttle opening and bypass screws, decreasing fuel by changing the CO trim (and/or fuel map values)

 

If above doesn't result in a stable idle, there's either a fault somewhere (TPS, either of the temperature and barometric sensors, injectors, ....) or the fuel map values are not suited to the specific engine.

 

If you have the inclination, time and required equipment also change the correction tables for air and engine temperature and barometric pressure. The original ones are flawed. This would ensure that the idle remains stable regardless of ambient conditions.

 

Cheers

Meinolf

[JRD]

Meinolf- thank you for explaining that in laymans terms so everyone can understand it.  By any chance to you work for NASA?   Just kidding!!!!!!  I cant thank you enough for taking the time to  research and explain how this all works in conjunction with the various programs inside the ECU's.  It has been fascinating and definitely a learning experience for me.  Thank you Docc, Roy and Scud also!

 

 

Jerry