03 V11 runs like crap

[O2 V11]

nobleswood, yes.There is only one Invercargill, now home to the world's fastest Indian, which was also infamously described by Mick Jagger during a Rolling Stones tour in the early sixties as "the arsehole of the world".

[Gottagetone]

Gottagetone,

 

Why did you get 3 Omsron & 2 Panasonic relays rather than all Omsron ?

 

Oz V11,

 

Is that Invercargill, N Z where Burt Munro was from ? Just watched 'The Fastest Indian' again. A great movie, one of my favorites.

While searching for the relay info all I could find was the one Omsron crossover.  My bike has three different relays, one 5 pin in slot one, two 4 pins in slots 2&3, and two smaller 4 pin relays in slots 4&5.  When I moved one of the larger relays into slot #4 my bike started really running like crap so I figured that I needed the smaller relays for slots 4 & 5.  Data sheet shows them to be the same so we shall see.  

[nobleswood]

In case I haven't said this enough times , snapping his suspenders, sit down with a pint of pale ale and give yourself a treat. Watch 'The Fastest Indian'. A cracking good movie!

 

Mike Jagger hadn't travelled much if that was his opinion of Invercargill.

 

KiwiRoy,

the relays are all the same aren't they? And can be replaced by the Omsrons you recommended.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes use all the same 5 pin variety.

There are many brands of the same relay, it's a standard automotive configuration, I'm sure the Panasonics are just as good,

The Omrons are either made in USA or Italy.

 

Over on the Wild Guzzi Forum Johnr lives in Invercargill, he probably has some stories about Burt

Growing up in NZ we used to hear stories about the crazy old coot and his Indian, but he was a bit before my time.

You can find a lot of information and pictures just by googling Bert Munro

 

I grew up in Wanganui, we had Percy and Rod Coleman of IOM fame.

[nobleswood]

Kiwi Roy,

 

Thanks for the clarification, I'll get some ordered.

 

I had to look up the Colemans, racing for the AJS team in the 50's ! Awesome!

Burt Munro was at Bonneville in the 60's, growing up I might have heard about him if I'd been paying attention. It was his 'Can do ' attitude that impressed me the most.

[Gottagetone]

I thought I would update on my progress or lack there of.  First of all, Kiwi-Roy has been amazing with the help.  I am no electrician and he has helped me with all kinds of info and diagrams.  

 

I changed out all of my relays thinking that one of them was bad, unfortunately that did not fix the problem.  We thought it might be a side stand switch but that does not appear to be the case.  Ive tested the 02 sensor in the airbox along with quite a few other electrical things.  

 

I stopped by a to see a friend that works at Harris Vincent Gallery, since they trust him to break down and rebuild high $ motorcycles and the fact the he is a certified Ducati tech I thought he might be able to help.  He seems to think that its a lean condition and that my Power Commander map may be the fix.  He said that the issue is well known on euro bikes at the 3k rpm range, Jap bikes the problem will show itself in the 4300k range.  Ive checked all the intake boots and they are in good shape.  

 

I took a couple of shots of the PCIII map and show them below, one at idle and one not.  I am not confident about adjusting the map and know that each map is set for the current bike specs.  My specs are shown at the bottom of the pics below.  Any thoughts on the map settings?

 

At idle:

 

2400RPMs:

 

I did try to pull the PCIII but it turns out that it being an 03 and PC not having a connection for that year model...the PO had it professionally installed so its hardwired and looks stock.  I also checked my fuse box as I was not getting any readings from fuse #8 and it turns out that there are no wires running to that fuse.  

 

Im thinking it might be time to take it to the dealership and have them check the throttle body sync and tappets.  If that all looks good then I may be headed to a PCIII specialist.

[Scud]

I was having some similar trouble with my LeMans that I couldn't sort out. I pulled the connector from the engine temperature sensor (which is how I got it from the PO - and all the trouble started when I reconnected it). It's been running so well, and getting good mileage, that I haven't bothered to reconnect it and find the root problem. I think what happens is that the bike runs a bit richer when the ECU thinks it's cold. So if the problem is that it's running too lean - this seems to have balanced it out a bit. I do not think this is an elegant solution, but that's what I've done. I am going to try again at some point to make it run correctly with the sensor connected - next service.

 

So - try pulling the plug and see what happens.

 

I can't help with all the computer stuff, but valve clearances and throttle body synch are pretty straightforward. Just take your time if you've never done those procedures before.

 

 

Edit:  I should point out that my LeMans has the Titanium ECU, so my experience may not apply to stock ECUs.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Scud

[Tom M]

If your bike was running fine for a long time then suddenly started running poorly your PC map isn't the problem.  Have you done the valve adjust/TPS check/Throttle body sync yet?

[Gottagetone]

Thats where its going next Tom.  From reading through this thread I thought the problem would be with one of the sensors but that simply does not appear to be the case.  

[Scud]

Try the valves first and see how that does. May as well check your spark plugs while they're out. I think that looser than factory recommended settings are used by almost everyone - and that too-tight settings can cause some of the problems you described. Valve adjustment is among the easiest things you can do - assuming you have a feeler gauge and some wrenches. Somebody on here once said you can tune a V11 with a rock and a stick. Probably not, but you get the idea. Throttle body synch is kind of fun, especially if you build your own manometer - just takes a stick, a tube, and some oil. So there's the stick, but I'm still not sure how the rock factors in...

[docc]

. . .  So there's the stick, but I'm still not sure how the rock factors in...

Make sure your valves are cool when you adjust them (not necessarily stone cold!)

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[Gottagetone]

Ive never done the valve adjustment thing but will give it a shot, headed to pick up some feeler gauges today....seems pretty straight forward.  The TB sync is something that I am a little less sure of attempting...   I changed the spark plugs about 1200 miles ago and they look good but for the couple bucks I may pick up a new set.  

[GuzziMoto]

The hardest part of adjusting the valves is making sure the motor is rotated to the correct position so that when you adjust the valve it is on the right part of the cam. TDC with both valves closed should do it.

I have never found another brand so easy to adjust the valves.

[Tom M]

FWIW here's how I set my valve lash without pulling the alternator cover or looking for the marks on the flywheel. 

 

- Raise the rear wheel  (I use the factory work stand).

- Remove both spark plugs and both rocker covers.

- Roll the rear wheel forward by hand while shifting up to 6th gear.

- Turn the engine over with the rear wheel until I see the intake valve on the right cylinder open then close.  As soon as it closes that piston will be on the compression stroke. 

- Put a probe in that cylinder and slowly bump the rear wheel forward while letting the probe slip through your fingers as the piston ascends.  When the piston goes past TDC you will feel the piston break contact with the probe.  Bump the rear wheel slightly backward to find TDC.

- Check and adjust lash on that cylinder as needed then run the rear wheel through a few rotations and recheck at TDC on the compression stroke.  I use .006" (.15mm) intake/.008" (.20mm) exhaust.

- Repeat for left side.

 

(I checked my probe method against using a dial indicator for finding TDC and I found that I could easily come within .005" of true TDC with the probe, which is plenty close enough for this job.)

 

Hope this helps,

Tom

[docc]

FWIW here's how I set my valve lash without pulling the alternator cover or looking for the marks on the flywheel. 

 

- Raise the rear wheel  (I use the factory work stand).

- Remove both spark plugs and both rocker covers.

- Roll the rear wheel forward by hand while shifting up to 6th gear.

- Turn the engine over with the rear wheel until I see the intake valve on the right cylinder open then close.  As soon as it closes that piston will be on the compression stroke. 

- Put a probe in that cylinder and slowly bump the rear wheel forward while letting the probe slip through your fingers as the piston ascends.  When the piston goes past TDC you will feel the piston break contact with the probe.  Bump the rear wheel slightly backward to find TDC.

- Check and adjust lash on that cylinder as needed then run the rear wheel through a few rotations and recheck at TDC on the compression stroke.  I use .006" (.15mm) intake/.008" (.20mm) exhaust.

- Repeat for left side.

 

(I checked my probe method against using a dial indicator for finding TDC and I found that I could easily come within .005" of true TDC with the probe, which is plenty close enough for this job.)

 

Hope this helps,

Tom

That sure beats pulling the front cover, which the hardest part of the valve adjustment.

 

@Gottagetone, you'll be pleasantly surprised how your V11 responds to the complete tune-up.

 

Sticks and stones aside, a digital voltmeter and guzzidiag make the process a breeze along with the correct three cables. This will allow you to set the baselines on the TPS, CO fuel trim, and idle speed before the throttle body synch. Sounds like a lot, but it's do-able and the bike will likely run great!