03 V11 runs like crap

[docc]

I used to take my taps in and out, replacing them with the screws, which finally led to a HeliCoil.

 

Now I use rubber caps on the nipples and carry extras in case one tears or comes off.

[Gottagetone]

Is there a basic step by step to setting the TPS, I thought there was but I am not finding it?

[Scud]

Is there a basic step by step to setting the TPS, I thought there was but I am not finding it?

 

There are a few different sequences of doing things on this site. I think they all must have worked well for the people who posted them - so perhaps some of the sequence is not that important. I read a few and came up with a tuning procedure that made sense to me. As you can see from Tom's simple process, I might have added some unnecessary steps.  My process is at post #66 in this thread:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18967&page=5

 

The TPS has two settings:

1 - the "off" position - this is the lowest (150mv) reading, when the RH throttle body is fully closed. It's a key baseline setting. If this one is wrong, it effects everything else.

2 - the "idle" position - this one is the higher (+/-500mv) reading, with the RH throttle body cracked open to allow enough air through for the engine to idle.

[Zooter]

 

My TB's have screws set in where there should be spigots for vacuum hoses!

They are 6mm, get a pair of straight grease nipples and grind the tip off the threaded end, this will let the spring and ball pop out making a nice nipple for the balance hose.

Put the screws back when finished.

Thanks! Docc please add that to the new idiot guide to guzzidiag!

[Tom M]

TPS setup is pinned at the top of the FAQ.  There used to be pictures but I guess they're gone.

 

In the past I used to slip two safety pins down into the top of the TPS connector to measure the voltage but now I use the VDST software to verify throttle angle at idle.  You might want to get Guzzidiag and use that to check your throttle angle.

[Zooter]

My kingdom for some pictures! There are no bleed screws in my TB's that I can see. I'm only guessing ''right idle screw'' is the cable length screw with lock nut.

[JBBenson]

Bleed screw

 

 

 

Idle and white knob

 

[MartyNZ]

Hey Zooter,

If you are in Christchurch, you are welcome to borrow some V11 tuning tools I have. Give me a ring on (021) 135 1023.

I bought the cables so I can use the GuzziDiag software on a little netbook. That is a slick program.

I made a breakout harness to measure TPS voltage from pieces of dead Fiat, so you can measure voltage accurately. This voltage is repeated in GuzziDiag, but if you hook up an analogue meter you may see flickering of the needle as you move the throttle, which could tell you that the TPS has intermittent contact. It is harder to see eratic TPS output with a digital readout.

And you can borrow the manometer to check synchronizing; it's not pretty but it works.

Marty.

[Gottagetone]

Thanks for all your help.  I am starting to understand the process of setting the TPS and the breakout harness.  I printed out the directions in the FAQ section and those along with the pics help a lot.  I don't have the guzzidiag software and have a question...how the heck to I get the voltage meter to touch the two outer wires inside the TPS connector without a breakout harness?  Thats a blind corner if I have ever seen one!

 

I tried twisting paper clips around the volt meter leads then using those to touch the TPS prongs and got some readings but nothing consistent enough.

[GuzziMoto]

You can back probe the connector. That is, come at it from the same side the wires go into the connector from. Try using a pair of pins. If you get some alligator clip leads you can clip them to the pins on one end and to the probe ends on the other.

Another option is a posi-lock connector, that will allow you to tap the wires. You can use those cheap wire tap connectors, but I avoid them.

http://www.posi-products.com/

[Gottagetone]

Thanks GM, I tried using my modified paper clips to back probe and I am getting inconsistent readings I assume from the inconstant connection.  The closest I got to a 150 without backing off the idle right hand idle screw or disconnecting the sync rod was 159.  

 

 

Screw it, I just ordered the breakout harness.  They said it would ship today and go via priority mail. 

[Tom M]

Thanks GM, I tried using my modified paper clips to back probe and I am getting inconsistent readings I assume from the inconstant connection.  The closest I got to a 150 without backing off the idle right hand idle screw or disconnecting the sync rod was 159.  

 

I'd say that's close enough.  Mine was about 250mV the last time that I checked it.  The TPS setting at idle is far more important IMO.  I've had my mixture verified on a dyno so I know at least on my bike that 150mv setting with everything disconnected was not critical.

 

Here's a thread where all of this was discussed years ago.

 

TPS thread

[Gottagetone]

I don't have the AXONE or guzzidiag software, will my PCIII map show the step 6 - idle trim set to 0?  If not and this is quite important I might as well take it to the stealership...

 

Also, when using the Micha method, do you just open the bleed screws from where they are now one full turn....and after I have synced the TBs to I remove the synch rod to set the TPS or just adjust it as it sets?  

 

I have yellow paint on my adjuster screws, I assume that will just chip off allowing me to make the adjustments? 

 

In case you didn't click on the Micha Method that I referenced above, here's what works for me:

Step one - Set your valves to world settings (.15mm/.006" intake, .2mm/.008" exhaust)
Step two - Set your air bleed screws to open 1 full turn
Step three - Synch throttle bodies at just off idle (around 1800 rpm)
Step four - Set idle to 1100 using left idle screw adjuster only
Step five - Set TPS to 3.6 degrees (530mV)
Step six - Ensure idle trim is set to zero. This requires an AXEONE dealer tool or either VDST or GuzziDiag software.

[Meinolf]

Hi,

 

The closest I got to a 150 without backing off the idle right hand idle screw or disconnecting the sync rod was 159. 

 

then you are making a mistake.

 

Setting the TPS to 156mV (not 150mV) with all rods disconnected and both throttle stops fully out is key. The ECU code contains a 16x16 lookup table, which converts the voltage coming from the TPS to degrees. The cell $08 in the lookup table contains the 0 degrees, the voltage corresponding to that opening is 156mV. If you don't get this right then all values depending on the TPS opening (fuel, acceleration, ignition,...) will be off target and the ECUs uses the wrong values. That is, values don't match to the actual opening.

 

That is most noticeable at low openings, because the free cross sectional area of the intake increases following a cosine function. That means that a low openings, say going from 1° to 2°, a small change results in a much bigger free area changes than at large openings. Below is a sample calculation for a Jackal, which has a smaller bore than the V11, but the relationship respectively the %-changes are the same.

 

TPS angle alpha (break points) Athrottlevalve Cross section area of throttle valve [mm^2] Aflow Cross section (Throttle body - Throttle valve) [mm^2] open cross section (Throttle body - Throttle valve) % change versus previous TPS break point 1 1235 22 1,7%   2 1213 44 3,5% 50% 4,05 1168 89 7,1% 49% 4,6 1156 101 8,0% 88% 5,33 1140 117 9,3% 86% 6,3 1119 138 11,0% 85% 7,54 1092 165 13,1% 84% 9,01 1060 197 15,7% 84% 10,85 1020 237 18,8% 83% 13,43 965 292 23,2% 81% 16,93 891 366 29,1% 80% 21,53 795 461 36,7% 79% 28,15 664 593 47,2% 78% 37,03 500 757 60,2% 78% 48,28 319 938 74,6% 81% 60,93 158 1098 87,4% 85% 84,8 267 989 78,7% 111% 90 262 995 79,2% 99%

 

Hm, the paste and copy of the above table didn't work. A simple formula to calculate the cross sectional area is:

 

A = (3.14 x D² / 4) x (1- (cos alpha / cos alpha₀)), where alpha is the opening angle and alpha₀ is the angle with the butterfly closed. If you are interested, here: http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:23184/fulltext01is one source for the calculation. Page 13, 3.1.2.

 

The opening at idle is not critical. It will be what results out of setting the required idle speed with both cylinders synchronized carefully.

 

Cheers

Meinolf

[gstallons]

Whew....