lvgs Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Hi, I recently purchased my first Guzzi: a 2004 Ballabio with ~15k kms and in excellent condition. That is, with the exception of a significant surging and bucking problem. It is most evident when the engine is hot, at lower speeds/rpms and throttling down. The previous owner did not have it very long but did change the plugs and had a local MG service tech service the bike. The tech adjusted the throttle position sensor, CO% and left side throttle body back to factory specs. He recommended the injectors be cleaned as "one or both are not spraying fuel properly because he had to trim fuel to negative side of adjustment". Truthfully, I very limited mechanical skill and knowledge and therefore, am unclear whether we are on the right track or not. I have longed for a Guzzi since I started riding many years ago and was delighted when I found this particular one. Needless to say, it's been very disappointing but I am still very hopeful this is remediable with your help. Many thanks, in advance, for any thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I have a few questions for more detail. What rev range are you experiencing the issue? What speeds/gears? Did the tech adjust the valves and balance the TB's? Any signs of hacks or non-standard widgets the PO may have done to "adjust" it? What about all the other basic stuff you do to a used bike you just bought? Filters (both oil and air), oils, valves clearances, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvgs Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 I have a few questions for more detail. What rev range are you experiencing the issue? What speeds/gears? Did the tech adjust the valves and balance the TB's? Any signs of hacks or non-standard widgets the PO may have done to "adjust" it? What about all the other basic stuff you do to a used bike you just bought? Filters (both oil and air), oils, valves clearances, etc.... Hi, I typically experience the surging at less than 3,500 rpm and in lower gears i.e. 1-4. Apart from the work described in my earlier post, I am not aware of any other work done by the tech or previous owner(s) i.e. with the exception of replacing the spark plugs. There is no indication of any after market software or hardware hacks or devices. Apart from bar-end mirrors, the bike is completely stock. Unfortunately, little previous service history came with the bike. Based on my assessment when I bought it, the oil and brake/clutch fluids are clear. Hope that helps and thanks...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossi46 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Below 3,500 is lugging the engine, bike not happy, use more revs☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuzziMoto Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 RPMs is a touchy topic. The wifes V11 works fine down to around 2500 rpm in the lower gears. But many around here will say that below 3500 rpms is too low. I think their bikes are just not set up quite right if they surge and buck below 3500 rpm. Especially if you are talking on the decel (as in throttling down). There is an unusual way to sync the TB's on a Guzzi. There is detailed info posted here on how to do it around here. In a nut shell, you set the balance at around 3K with the linkage and set the idle with a air bleed screw. If the linkage is not balanced correctly you may have surging. Do not take my quick summation of the process to be a guide on how to do it. It is just to illustrate the extra complexity of the process compared to normal motors where the TBs/carbs are parallel to each other. The Guzzi TBs are both angled inward/outward towards each other. That changes the way the linkage acts. Always set the valve lash before sync'ing TBs. And I would not assume that the bike is properly serviced, I would go over it 100%. Nobody puts the effort in to servicing a bike they are selling. That is for the next owner to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvgs Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 That's very helpful, thank you. I am able to run my BMW boxers without lugging below 2500 rpm; a bad habit I know. Nevertheless, I will take the bike in for a full service and relay your comments to the tech. If, in the meantime, there are any things I can do to qualify or disqualify potential causes please let me know. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mznyc Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The fueling should be correct at ALL RPM's.The bike should run fine below 3500K(as mine does) but you get more HP and TQ in it's sweet spot 5-7K. Usually surging points to air leaks.Check the header,mid-pipe,and exhaust can connections if your mechanic hasn't yet.Also the rubber FI boots are a common failure,even small cracks will mess up fueling right quick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp838 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 and even if they look fine, ten years later they are certainly dry rotted. mine were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Lots of advise in this topic. Based on my personal experience with surging around 3000-3500 rpm, i would also recommend starting with the basics. Most has been covered above. My 2003 ballabio suffered from surging at the stated rpms and did not like small (constant) throttle openings. To cut to the chase; it can be solved if you get all the "dials" right. It took me lots of time to get it right. I could not have done it w/o this forum and all its knowlage. You say your not 'technical'. I can help you but some basic understanding of a motorcycle would be very handy. On the other hand, i knew nothing about FI until i got here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Always start with a thorough "tune-up." TPS Setting and Throttle Body Balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoguzzi Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 do you have a cross over in the headers? they have cracked and leak air.. be sure valves are not set too tight. do you trust the service tech that did the work last? that negative trim setting does not sound right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I am able to run my BMW boxers without lugging below 2500 rpm; never EVER compair ya BMW to a Guzzi, ya just cant and even if they look fine, ten years later they are certainly dry rotted. mine were. what were how HA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvgs Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Apologies for not having responded to the more recent posts; I just came back from a trip through British Columbia and Alberta on my GS. Since returning and reading your feedback, it is clear that a full tune up is indicated. Additionally, I took the bike for a ride a couple of days ago and found that she is much 'happier' at higher rpms i.e. pulls smoothly and strongly above 3500 rpms. Also, I did find that the cross pipe between the two header pipes is loose and doesn't appear well 'seated'. I have tried to force it deepy into place and tighten, on both sides, but will likely need the tech to do it properly. Could this be a contributor? Again, sincere thanks for all the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoguzzi Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Also, I did find that the cross pipe between the two header pipes is loose and doesn't appear well 'seated'. I have tried to force it deepy into place and tighten, on both sides, but will likely need the tech to do it properly. Could this be a contributor? Again, sincere thanks for all the feedback. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoguzzi Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Best thing you could do is ditch that front cross over for straight header pipes and also loose the stock mid crossover for a Mistral or Stucci x-over (under the tranny) . AND REV THAT MOTOR, it loves cruising at 5k and above. shift at 5 k or above too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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