Strange Metallic Rattle - Champagne Edition

[Scud]

I've posted about this in the Champagne Wishes project thread, but here's a summary of the issue:

• Engine is from a crashed bike that I parted out. It had only 12,000 miles. I've had the heads and barrels and pistons out. I believe everything is assembled correctly, but I am quite capable of making mistakes.
• I've done a leak-down test with satisfactory results.
• I've adjusted valves from too loose to almost too tight and the noise remains about the same.
• Tinus89 solved a rattle by removing a check ball in the breather system. I have not seen such a part, but I am struggling with a similar sound.  http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19627

Since it's hard to diagnose from just one video, here is the Greenie, followed by the Champagne LeMans - both running under same conditions in so you can compare sounds.

 

 

What do you all think?

[coreytrevor]

Not another one already!

[coreytrevor]

Wow, really loud, you can hear it clearly on the video. It's very consistant, not changing with rpm. It sounds to me like a valvetrain sound, like a valve with a couple millimeters of clearance.

 

So it is just on the RH side?

[gstallons]

remove the valve cover and see what is going on .....

[czakky]

Exhaust leak? I'm sure somebody has mentioned this but does the sound change clutch in or out?

 

Hard to help somebody who's forgotten more than I know....

[docc]

Compare to Tinus89's audio/videos?

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19627&p=224844

[coreytrevor]

Did you look at the lifters when it was apart?

 

Are the valve adjuster screws both showing about the same amount of threads above the nut?

[luhbo]

I too would say lifter or push rod. It's said the push rod ends can become loose. Anyway, that sounds like you have to go in. Nothing you could sell the bike with.

[Scud]

Yeah, this sounds way worse than Tinus' bike, and not like an exhaust leak. Engine sound is unchanged with clutch in. Clutch and transmission work well. Engine sound is constant while riding - but I only went up and down the street at low revs. Somebody inquired about buying it, so I wanted to be clear about what's going on with this engine.

 

I assume the first step would be to pull the RH head and barrel (with piston)?

 

From there, can I remove the pushrods and lifters - and see the cam lobes?

[luhbo]

Step by step. That's the biggest thing with Guzzi, the ease of disassembly without having to pull the engine.

[Tinus89]

Yeah, this sounds way worse than Tinus' bike, and not like an exhaust leak. Engine sound is unchanged with clutch in. Clutch and transmission work well. Engine sound is constant while riding - but I only went up and down the street at low revs. Somebody inquired about buying it, so I wanted to be clear about what's going on with this engine.

 

I assume the first step would be to pull the RH head and barrel (with piston)?

 

From there, can I remove the pushrods and lifters - and see the cam lobes?

 

 

I agree this is an entirely different sound compared to mine. To me it sounds like valve train noise or maybe small end noise (although I've never heard that on a V-twin, so I'm imagining).

Before pulling everything, could you either by using a stethoscope or large screwdriver to the ear pinpoint whether it is intake or exhaust side? Maybe even run it with the valve cover off for a min (careful of the oil spray)?

Then at least you know what you are looking for.

[Chuck]

Sure sounds like a valve train noise from a few miles north of you. I'm going to throw a dart and say wiped cam lobe.. but the next throw might land in a different place.

At any rate, as luhbo says..

You didn't put hydraulic lifters in it did you? Sounds like one hasn't pumped up..

[coreytrevor]

I wondered also about it being a small end noise, but I don't think it really sounds like that.

 

To get more clues you could disconnect the RH plug wire and ground it, run it on the other cylinder and see if the noise changes. The problem with doing that is that running on one cylinder might create so much extra noise it wouldn't help you. If the noise changes it would indicate piston/wristpin/rod. If not, probably valvetrain

[Scud]

Thanks for all the ideas. It seems to me that the only useful diagnosis available at this point will be through disassembly.

 

I previously ran it with the covers off and couldn't figure out what the problem was.

 

And no, Chuck, I didn't put hydro lifters.

 

I'll start on the right, since that seems to be the source of the noise.

[docc]

Tell, ya what, though, that RedFrame Sport sounds sweet!