MGV Guzzi on Bike Exif

[4corsa]

[pete roper]

They all look exactly the bloody same. They’re all ‘Built from a catalog’ cookie cutter versions of the same thing.

I used to like a nicely executed ‘Cafe’ Tonti but then they all became as dull and formulaic as those Harley’s that have been ‘Accessorised’ from the ‘Screaming Eagle’ catalog.
 

Back in the early 2000’s I used to get an endless stream of these gurning numpties coming through the shop. They’d buy something like a lovely old SP1000, tear the fairing off, paint the frame, (With a brush and without taking the engine out!), throw away the airbox and put pod filters on the same tiny carbs so the engine didn’t run right and then to make it truly ‘Individual’ they’d do something like saw the flange off the bevelbox, shorten the rear mudguard and paint the sidepanels maroon or something equally gross! They all had clip ons and a stupid tail light and every single one of them was an unutterable pile of shit!

When I expressed my feelings their owners would always flounce off in a huff! No skin off my nose as none of them ever had any money! It went hand in hand with the lack of talent! F*ckwits one and all.

[docc]

Let's face it, re-making a motorcycle successfully is not a matter for amateurs, the faint-hearted, or commercial venture. For the outcome to touch the heart and capture totality, some combination of skill, vision, experience, tools, and a certain amount of reverence must combine with resources, time, dedication and perseverance.

I offer this case in point:

 

[gstallons]

It is understood , when you personalize a bike .......you personalize YOUR bike.

[4corsa]

3 hours ago, pete roper said:

They all look exactly the bloody same. They’re all ‘Built from a catalog’ cookie cutter versions of the same thing.

I used to like a nicely executed ‘Cafe’ Tonti but then they all became as dull and formulaic as those Harley’s that have been ‘Accessorised’ from the ‘Screaming Eagle’ catalog.
 

Back in the early 2000’s I used to get an endless stream of these gurning numpties coming through the shop. They’d buy something like a lovely old SP1000, tear the fairing off, paint the frame, (With a brush and without taking the engine out!), throw away the airbox and put pod filters on the same tiny carbs so the engine didn’t run right and then to make it truly ‘Individual’ they’d do something like saw the flange off the bevelbox, shorten the rear mudguard and paint the sidepanels maroon or something equally gross! They all had clip ons and a stupid tail light and every single one of them was an unutterable pile of shit!

When I expressed my feelings their owners would always flounce off in a huff! No skin off my nose as none of them ever had any money! It went hand in hand with the lack of talent! F*ckwits one and all.

Pete, as far as the Kaffemaschine bikes go, I invite you to check out their website and see that they are anything but "built from a catalogue". https://www.kaffee-maschine.net/philosophie_en

They design and machine countless custom parts, frequently one-offs for a particular projects, including engine parts. If you know of a higher quality custom motorcycle shop (other than perhaps Walt Siegel), I'd love to know about it!

[Lucky Phil]

6 hours ago, docc said:

Let's face it, re-making a motorcycle successfully is not a matter for amateurs, the faint-hearted, or commercial venture. For the outcome to touch the heart and capture totality, some combination of skill, vision, experience, tools, and a certain amount of reverence must combine with resources, time, dedication and perseverance.

I offer this case in point:

 

My aim when modifying a motorcycle docc is to enhance the original concept with better components and create something that is unique but looks like it could have come out of the factory. So not trying to create a "racer" out of a tourer or GT bike and no just stripping it down and making it an uncomfortable, impractical and often illegal bike for the road. There needs to be balance, and an elegance about it and the retention of the original bikes DNA and character. This is why my V11 Sport for instance still retains the non radial callipers. Radial callipers would mean Aprilia RSV forks and a different front guard and that would have eliminated part of the V11 Sports recognisable aesthetic signature. Hanging gaudy aftermarket bit's off it is something i like to avoid as well.

 

Phil

[pete roper]

8 hours ago, 4corsa said:

Pete, as far as the Kaffemaschine bikes go, I invite you to check out their website and see that they are anything but "built from a catalogue". https://www.kaffee-maschine.net/philosophie_en

They design and machine countless custom parts, frequently one-offs for a particular projects, including engine parts. If you know of a higher quality custom motorcycle shop (other than perhaps Walt Siegel), I'd love to know about it!

OK. So they ‘Design and machine countless custom parts’. Why then do all their bikes look exactly the same? Few, if any of them, have any air filtration and their HP figures are the usual fantasy bullshit to mug the punters.

I’m sorry, it’s been done to death, again and again and again. Sure their execution is better than Joe Blow brush painting his ruined SP but it’s still the same shit. Sorry. I hate it.

What makes a bike like Phil’s, or Paul Minaert’s outstanding is the attention to detail and the ‘Outside the box’ thinking and effort that goes into them and they still look outstanding and WORK!

The usual response to me criticising things like this is that “You couldn’t do it yourself”! Damn f*cking straight I couldn’t! I have neither the skill or the patience to embark on such a project. I did, back around the middle of the first decade of this century build a short stroke roundfin that produced 80+ hp on a couple of Dino’s but it was only 891cc and it had to rev to nearly 10,000 RPM to do so. At those sorts of engine speeds, even though the MEPS was fine it torched its big ends regularly through oil pump cavitation! In 2006 I bought an 1100 Griso and it did everything my little hot rod did but was a turn-key machine! It also handled better, even without work on the suspension, and didn’t run its big ends with tiresome regularity! Looked far better than those tiresome two wheeled ‘Artworks’ too.

Look if you like that sort of thing? All power to you. I’m sure that whoever runs that business is far richer than I’ll ever be. I prefer just finding problems and solving them to make a good product better rather than making fantasies for rich dimbulbs who will probably ‘Ride’ their bikes once or twice a year. Im strange like that though……

[mikev]

1 hour ago, pete roper said:

the usual fantasy bullshit to mug the punters

pure aussie gold

[Paradiso]

I'm with Pete on this.  Great bikes, created by designers and engineers, are being destroyed by morons. It's cultural vandalism; our motorcycling heritage is being laid waste.  The same horror is being wrought on BMW airhead twins.  

[4corsa]

9 minutes ago, Paradiso said:

I'm with Pete on this.  Great bikes, created by designers and engineers, are being destroyed by morons. It's cultural vandalism; our motorcycling heritage is being laid waste.  The same horror is being wrought on BMW airhead twins.  

With the hundreds of thousands of Guzzis and BMW air-head twins manufactured in the past 5+ decades, I really don't think you need to lose any sleep over the 0.5% that are customized. Really.

I'd suggest the people to direct your anger towards is the far bigger group of morons who, over the decades, have let their bikes sit and rot for years without basic maintenance, and are now beyond reasonable repair.  If it weren't for these types, 90% of your original air-heads would still be on the road.

 

[pete roper]

In the US old ‘Touring’ Tonti’s may still be commonplace. Over here? Not so much. They are currently much sought after and a decent, unmolested one is very hard to find.

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, pete roper said:

... a decent, unmolested one is very hard to find.

That is a very pertinent point, I reckon. And this

10 hours ago, pete roper said:

In 2006 I bought an 1100 Griso and it did everything my little hot rod did but was a turn-key machine! It also handled better,

What good arguments are there for mucking up a perfectly good bike when one can just buy a different one that fulfills the objective?

On the other hand, I can perfectly understand wanting to build the "ideal bike" oneself. I've always wanted to, but have never managed it.

The closest I have come is my V35 Imola. I bought on a whim, and it was dead when I bought it. It had been in a cellar for about 19 years, had no ignition switch, and the wiring and ignition system was in a dismal state.

In the meantime, it has a Silent Hektik electronic ignition and alternator, a short-throw throttle grip, Koni rear shocks, and a clutch from a V9 which is much lighter to activate and lighter in weight than the original. I'm working on a Valeo starter motor because it is lighter than the 3 ton Lucas original. And I've got a fair bit of a 4-Valve 350 motor that I might one day get complete and install.

The real point is, I have dis- and reassembled everything on that bike myself, except the final drive assembly. I gave that to a workshop who has experience with that, as I wasn't inclined to learn how to set it up properly by trial and error, or to buy the necessary bucket full of shims to get it set up.

So that bike is mine. I know it, in every last detail, intimately. I like that.

In that perspective, I can understand wanting to modify a bike to make it "personal". But, as @Lucky Phil has already written, it should be all about making it better. Putting things on a bike purely for visual reasons is bullshit.

Individuality is also a thing. I can understand it, but somehow the quest for individuality seems to inevitably lead to "one more cafe racer" or "one more chopper". So called "custom bikes" tend to always end up fitting to a pattern.

And when a bike is visually "customised" without first paying attention to getting it mechanically perfect, well, that is bullshit too.

Edited 15 hours ago by audiomick

[4corsa]

I generally agree audiomick - for sure taking care of any mechanicals comes before aesthetics.

However, seems that every decade that goes by, new bikes have more and more cheap plastic covers and body parts, that look like crap on an otherwise great bike. I understand the reason is to keep the msrp down. Case in point - last year I bought the first brand new bike in my life, an Aprilia Tuono V4 1100. I got a great deal on a leftover 2023 model. I can't begin to tell you how incredible the bike is in every category (the sound alone!), and an absolute ball to ride. And I generally like the styling, as far as modern bikes go. But it has SO much plastic, which cheapens the look of this fine Italian moto. So I am, little by little, upgrading those plastic bits, purely for aesthetic reasons. And its entirely worth it (for me), as the mechanicals are all new and in need of nothing.

[audiomick]

17 minutes ago, 4corsa said:

However, seems that every decade that goes by, new bikes have more and more cheap plastic covers and body parts,... I understand the reason is to keep the msrp down. ... an Aprilia Tuono V4 1100.... it has SO much plastic,... So I am, little by little, upgrading those plastic bits, purely for aesthetic reasons.

As far as I see it, plastic is not only to do with price. It is also lightweight. Alternatives to plastic for the same weight are significantly more expensive to produce. Ok, so maybe it is just price.

Anyway, I can see that. Changing out plastic bits for metal bits, without increasing the weight, makes sense. Can be expensive, but I can understand that

 

There are a few things on the aforementioned V35 Imola that I would like to change. The seat, for instance. It is really heavy, and that on a bike with not much power, and a total weight of not much more than 160 kg. It would have to look the same as the original, but I have a vision of how it could be done.

Saving weight on that bike would be an advantage, but very expensive, I fear. There are also any number of bits that one could exchange for Titanium substitutes. Probably wont happen, but maybe. One day.

Edited 14 hours ago by audiomick

[pete roper]

While people like to go on the rant about ‘Plastic’ the simple fact is that apart from its lightness it also is not only cheaper than *metal* alternatives but it is ideal for making complex shapes like petrol tanks.

Manufacturing tanks like the V11, Griso or TV-4 would be hideously expensive. Blow-moulding them, (Or however it’s done? I’m not sure.) is quick, cheap and efficient and as long as the correct material is used, long lasting and robust as well.

Its interesting to note that the Guzzi arm of Piaggio obviously knows it’s market pretty well as the V7 series smallblocks predominantly sold to either hipsters or those pining for imagined ‘Glory Days’ of yore and the Cali 1400 series both are/were fitted with steel tanks. At least in part because the early V7’s had plastic tanks and this produced towering, spittle-flecked rage among ‘Those of a certain age and demeanour.’. These are of course the same people who became apoplectic when incandescent light bulbs were phased out and when they were encouraged to get dual-flush toilets!

Luckily both the V85 ‘Adventure’ bike and the V100 which appeal to a different market segment are free of such constraints and have sensible plastic tanks, albeit in both cases fitted with external ‘Skins’ made up of detachable panels and in the case of the V100 those ridiculous ‘Wings’ that stick out like dog’s balls when you hit a certain speed! At least you can turn them off!