BrianG Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 I have enjoyed almost 8,000 miles of riding this season, with nothing more that a little transmission oil seepage, and the need of new tires. In the last few days I have noted the onset of a new "clutch situation". This consists of something of a new noise....... It always sounded like noisy valve clatter when the clutch was released in neutral, but it would go mostly quiet when the clutch lever was pulled........ now there is a definite "whirring" noise. If I had to guess, I'd say the throw-out bearing is on it's way south (if this thing actually HAS such an animal). Also, I have noticed an irregularity in the feel of a gradual clutch engagement. It is almost as though the plates are not smooth, or something. There is a "chiggering" feel to the engagement process if I slip the clutch. It feels OK if the clutch is engaged quickly. Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtucker Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Also, I have noticed an irregularity in the feel of a gradual clutch engagement. It is almost as though the plates are not smooth, or something. There is a "chiggering" feel to the engagement process if I slip the clutch. It feels OK if the clutch is engaged quickly. This part sounds familiar. One day, I started to notice oddities during clutch engagement... it started getting "snatchy". I just happened to stop by my dealer's shop, and it seemed to get worse, so I left it there. Turned out the rivets holding the friction plate together sheared off. Fortunately for me, it happened at that time, and not while I was hundreds of miles from home... Also a 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Same symptoms on my Eldorado. Engagement was real rough and the bike had more vibration. I took it apart and one clutch plate had come apart. Fortunately, it's a pretty easy fix, al things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianG Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 Great... 1 week before our annual 1000 mile trip. Is failure going to be catastrophic? Would you risk this trip and defer the task to after? Anyone have a secret way to get at the clutch FAST. I've never crabbed the bike before! What parts do I need on hand?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Great... 1 week before our annual 1000 mile trip. Is failure going to be catastrophic? Would you risk this trip and defer the task to after? Anyone have a secret way to get at the clutch FAST. I've never crabbed the bike before! What parts do I need on hand?? Brian, I've done a quick crabbing of the frame, which is part of what you asked about -- I have NOT replaced the clutch! I don't know what y'er schedule's like for the next week, but gettin' this done right is gonna be tight no matter what you've got planned. You'll more'n likely have such things as replacement bolts for pressure plate and flywheel (I think there's some debate as to whether or not these are must replace items) and the disks themselves a 2-day shipment from y'er favorite Guzzi parts emporium and roadside anachronism museum. Might need such items as a clutch centering tool as well. I defer to superior expertise. And don't trust me for a list (I sure don't ) -- I'd get the usual list for a complete job from a Pro. I had my trans out in one day, recall work done next day, back in the bike same day, and was riding the 3rd day. But you might want to allow for turnaround time in case you want to get machine work done while it's out as necessary, depending on how things look. Crabbing the frame is all pretty straightforward. I discovered a few things I hadn't read or seen anywhere that made it LOTS easier and quicker: Using a shop stand, if you also support both the front end (for safety purposes - both yours and y'er Guzzi's) and rear subframe (for expedience) from above, this works like a Champ. You'll be jockeying stuff around with multiple supports. I suggest have an assortment of of blocks handy for such tasks as securely supporting the sump and swingarm as needed. I found padded jackstands helpful at several points. Supporting the rear subframe from above allows you to crab the frame and get the trans out without removing the right-hand pork chop. This allows you to leave the rear subframe and wiring harness intact -- a big time and even bigger grief saver. Going back together, don't forget to align y'er driveshaft trunnions, & lightly lube clutch hub, driveshaft, and wheel hub splines with the stickiest spline lube you can get ahold of. At this link, Paul and Pete have a go at a procedure for a dual disk clutch: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...tch+replacement There are some things going on there that I'm not savvy on, 'cause I didn't have to do my clutch. I hope the suggestions on a quick and easy crab of the frame are helpful. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 My opinions (and they're worth what you pay for them). Brian, it's gonna be tight, but you more'n likely have such things as pilot bearing, throw-out bearing, o-ring for the clutch atuating rod, replacement bolts for pressure plate and flywheel (I think there's some debate as to whether or not these are must replace items) and the disks themselves a 2-day shipment from y'er favorite Guzzi parts emporium and roadside anachronism museum. Sounds good. Might need such items as a clutch centering tool as well. I defer to far superior expertise. And don't trust my memory for a complete list (I sure don't ) -- I'd get the usual list for a complete job from a Pro. You'll need a centering tool. An old hub and an M10??? fine thread bolt can be used- you'll need a way to center the clutch plates as well as compress them. Don't forget to align y'er driveshaft trunnions, & lightly lube clutch hub, driveshaft, and wheel hub splines with the stickiest spline lube you can get ahold of. There's some debate about lubing the input hub. The argument is that the lube will pick up and hold rust/dust, and effectively turn into grinding paste. If you do lube it, don't use much. But- price everthing out. It might be cheaper, easier, and more timely to replace with a RAM clutch. No need to align anything. No need for special tools. It's an alternative. I would definitely make sure it's the clutch first, then- if it is- replace. You don't want to go on a long ride under the potential it busting. I had to drive ~200 miles home with a de-lamininated clutch and it "weren't fun" as they say. Although it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianG Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 I would definitely make sure it's the clutch first, Is there any definitive way to tell, short of disassembly? Also... I am now thoroughly confused! Is my 2000 V-11 Sport equiped with a single or dual plate clutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Is there any definitive way to tell, short of disassembly? Also... I am now thoroughly confused! Is my 2000 V-11 Sport equiped with a single or dual plate clutch? IMHO, your symptoms are about as definitive as it gets. If your 2000 Sport is like mine, it's a dual disk. Brian, please disregard my reference to pilot bearing, throw-out bearing, and o-ring for the actuating rod in Jason's post. My apologies. Your Guzzi has none of this stuff. I'd been thinking about the many cars I'd replaced clutches on, and in the case of the o-ring, this is a throw-back to the cable-operated clutch days. Jason quoted me just before I caught meself and corrected my post. . . . A misremembery is a terrible thing. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I thought it did have a throwout bearing, outer body, etc? Did Guzzi finally get rid of the stupid cone washers? Granted, I've not taken mine apart....Anyhow- doesn't matter- that's not the problem. The other possibility is a warped intermediate plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianG Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 The other possibility is a warped intermediate plate. I much prefer this possibility! No one has commented on the "whirring" noise when the clutch lever is pulled in....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I thought they all changed 'whirring' sounds when the clutch is engaged. The real concern is more that you have felt yours 'change.' Simple ( relatively speaking) inspection is well called for and may prevent a catastrophic event. No one wants to delaminate a clutch at 100 + kph. It's not even a good thing to think about at 100+kph . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 The whirring sound when the clutch is pulled in is the intermediate plate rattling in the flywheel splines and the friction plates rattling on the hub due to the uneven power pulses 270 and 450 degrees apart. It's perfectly normal. \\\\the symptoms you describe are typical of disintegrating clutch pltes, either the friction material un-riveting and de-laminating of the centres cracking out of the plates. Stop trying to pretend that there is an *easy* solution and don't even THINK of going on a long trip until you've been in and checked it out. You can risk it if you like but I think you'd have to be nuts! While not as easy to do as an old Tonti clutch replacing the clutch on a V11 is not tremendously difficult or time consuming. It's a bit over a day's job at best for someone who knows what they are doing. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianG Posted September 16, 2006 Author Share Posted September 16, 2006 'nuff said....... Snorkel on and down I go! Would still appreciate a list of parts to order......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.gilmore Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 'nuff said....... Snorkel on and down I go! Would still appreciate a list of parts to order......... HI BRIAN Just buy a complete RAM replacement.I did and man,I am glad I did.Not only was the clutch spline completely rooted, the flywheel was nilly cracked in half.and it wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary. $1250AU. 1 afternoon to pull it out ,and 1 to put it back. Had to make a couple of tools to do the job.If I can do it anyone can.Good luck and all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 Two clutch plates. New springs. Go ahead and replace them, as they are inexpensive and at least on the older bikes they were worn out 10 minutes after installation. one intermediate plate if you feel unlucky. There probably isn't anything wrong with it, buuuuuttttt...... or you can get a RAM clutch and it comes with everything. Hopefully someone can chime in on replacement cone washers or o-rings to seal the push rod in the transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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