Weegie

That was probably me Kremmen, I've got a HiCam engine that was/is overheating. Anyway I posted about the travails on this thread https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/21884-hicam-oil-pressure-gross-stupidity-and-why-you-should-always-listen-to-chuck/ It may have been there as I made that statement on that thread Due to all the research I did, while basically going down the wrong road, I was frequently in correspondence with Joe Caruso and that was where the information came from If the gear pump output is linear with RPM and gear rotor length similarily linear to pump output, then the lower flowrate is significant, although I've never heard of anybody who did this mod report problems...............however very few owners install pressure gauges and I have no idea what sort of mileage or how many of these mods have been completed. The V11/MGS conversion will have the oil pump running close to 10% slower and the V11 pump rotor length is almost 25% less than the OEM Daytona/Centauro parts. Apart from the Caruso gear and pump mod My advice is install an oil pressure gauge (and some method monitoring oil temp doesn't hurt either). Make sure that the pressure relief valve is opening at the correct pressure (they nearly all don't) and that its sealing when shut. As far as lubrication these engines need a stupid amount of oil to the heads and the 2 big weak points are the oil pump and the relief valve. On the relief valve and low pressure a friend is putting a HiCam back into service and I urged him to put a gauge on. What he found was the relief leaking badly and his pressure (cold oil) was 28psi idle normally they will show 50psi and even that's is reallly too low. With no gauge he'd have probably have been out running around thinking all was great as the warning light wouldn't trigger (although it may have once the engine was up to temp). I do wonder how long though the engine would have lasted like that and the amount it could have potentially cost him. Yet I still get owners telling me that a gauge is waste of time and doesn't tell you s**t.........................each to their own I suppose

Here is what happens when the engine was run with the Griso spring in

I'd agree to an extent but wouldn't quite go so far as to say the 1100 is horrible, I'd agree it's not nearly as nice a design as the Sfida 1000. I'm at odds with how Magni's take is horrid, compared with Guzzi's on the Sporti. The Guzzi version for the UK (and I think the US), where they junked the trapazoid headlight and installed the rectangular unit was even worse. I can remember my disappointment when I purchased an early Daytona and it had that setup compared to the trapazoid in the brochures I think the Sfida 1100i looks great with the fairing added when Magni produced the Giappone, which is essentially a Sfida 1100 with USD forks, the Magni V11 exhuasts and a full fairing. I'm thinking about the fairing as a possible winter project for mine I can understand the beauty of the MGS but its never really sang out that loud to me and the input from, was it Ghezzi or Brian? is obvious. As you can see I love the Magnis and prefer the Australia design over the MGS. Perhaps it's an age thing, I'm getting on a bit and prefer curves to angular, but that's simply taste (and mine may well be up my ass) Vive la difference po18guy You do know about the Guareschci don't you? Not identical but if you were looking to have something close to an MGS for the road it's not so bad, I Iike it a lot Oh just one more to clarify Magni actually produced HiCam and an 1100 sport engines stuffed into his version of the Tonti chassis in very limited numbers. EDIT As well as a few Sfidas being stuffed into Magni's version of the Tonti I also meant to add that the Australia 92 (they were built in 2 batches in 92 and 98, as I recall) had the same tontiesque frame too. It was only the later Australia 98s that were beam/spine framed. I can't find any pictures right now but there were a few Anyway I'll get ma coat, nuff said by me

Well we are all different I guess, but nice though it is and has the advantage of modern forks etc: I much prefer the looks of the Magni

docc, MartyNZ & Kiwi Roy (our resident electrical consultant) have nailed it I'm not sure about your running light statement and fail to understand it. On my computer the link to the wiring diagram is also broken. It's due to the rather Heath Robinson (if you know who he is) circuit that Guzzi used linking the circuit for the warning bulb, it's quite clever and works if you don't change anything but if you modify it, then strange things happen Everything will work with the warning light removed as you state. If you want to use LED indicators then you'll need to replace the flasher relay with an electronic unit or resistors. Resistors are horrible and a bit hit and miss, besides the flasher unit will probably cost less than 4 resistors (which may or may not work, at least on first try) If you want the warning light to work as well as the electronic relay you'll need to modify the warning light circuit too. You can try the back to back LED trick, I've never tried that but it should work for the warning light. What I did when replacing the incandescent bulbs with LEDs on both a Sport and a Daytona (the wiring circuits are the same for the V11) was to use Roy's 3rd sketch. You disconnect both wires going to the warning light. Then solder in Diodes the sliver ring on the Diode should point toward the warning light (or away from the exisitng wire). Join then the 2 diodes, or the wires leading from the diodes, together and connect them to the non blocking side of the LED warning light (easy to test that, try one side if it doesn't work try the other) Make a direct connection to earth on the other side of the LED. Roy's 3rd diagram shows it in diagram form which is easier to understand. This just came up on a similar post https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/22088-turn-indicators-aspire-to-4way-flashers/ My LED dash on the Daytona (I should have cleaned it up a little before making the video)

Pretty sure the additional ground would help and the earthing is a known weak point. As Phil said the reg/rec's job is to get rid of the additional energy. It will get hot, but that sounds to me like there is a problem and I'd be checking all my connections. At idle RPM the Alternator isn't going to be putting out a great deal of power, so I wouldn't have thought it should get so hot you can barely touch it. That said that's an ASS-umption I have not actually tested what sort of temps my reg/rec reaches when sitting at idle. Where's Roy when you need him?

They look like bloody great resistors to me. Probably there to try to balance the load to (try) to keep the flash rate correct (as you already stated) and balance the circuit loads to keep the overall resistance (and thereby current flow) the same I dislike resistors they waste power and just get hot. However, that said, if they're already there and haven't melted anything, then I'd just keep them in. From the picture it looks reasonably neat so if it aint broke don't fix it. I do apologize I need to read the first post more thoroughly in future I was under the (mistaken) impression you were wanting to ditch the resistors. Providing the new LEDs don't consume vastly more power, and I doubt they would, then it should all work just fine. Should you want to junk them later then diodes are the way to go, tiny in comparison, no heat and more efficient. Wiring them into the turn signal warn light though is a faff (well it was on the Sporti and Daytona), so why give yourself the trouble

Think we are more or less saying the same thing Marty. From Carl Allison's V11 wiring diagram it looks like the same setup as the Sportis and Daytona/Centauros. With the increased resistance of the LED indicator the Voltage will be held higher on the positive side of the selected indicator ciricuit. The voltage finds it more difficult to get to earth as the resistance has increased with the LEDs. The earth path for the whole circuit might then be (at least in part) through the turn warning bulb which is via the indicator circuit in the opposite side. The opposite side from selected will then light dimly as enough current is flowing to partly light the bulbs or LEDs (it's all bit hit and miss as is the original circuit, start to change things and it can all go to pot). The only thing I disagree on is installing a Diode either side of the warning bulb without doing anything else. Perhaps I'm missing something but how then does the warning bulb earth? This is what I did when putting in an LED warning light and I'm pretty sure would work for the OPs situation as well. Yes fit a diode on each of the lines going to the warning light, (the silver band will point towards the warning bulb connectror) then gang the LH & RH wires together after their respective diodes and connect them to one side of the warning light. On the other side install a direct connection to earth (or chassis if you're using the president's english) Wait until Kiwi Roy wakes up to confirm/rubbish my suggestion, then we'll all be sure and you'll have the opinion of the best electrical guy on the forum

I'll need to look at the circuit later but are you sure their resistors? They might be diodes, have they a silver stripe on one side alternatively resistors on their own might be enough to limit the current Couple of things First the dimm flashing on the opposite side sounds like either a poor earth on the side that's flashing so what's happening is the circuit is finding a way to earth through the other side. or Their might be something wierd going on in the wiring circuit. Anything done to the warning bulb on the dash? On the 1100 Sports and Daytonas Centauros Guzzi wired the turn signal warn bulb so that when one side was flashing the warning bulb earthed through the other side, this worked fine with a bulb but as an LED only worked in one direction would not work with an LED. The other side would light as well. I'm foggy on the exact reasoning as it's a while since I looked at it.

I'm no expert but what Phil stated is how I understand it too, the fire triangle, with the 3 elements coming together. I'm sceptical about "the not enough Oxygen/air in the tank to take place" hypothesis, AFAIK tanks are vented therefore anything above the fuel level could be an explosive mixture. Depends on the surface area, temperature and probably other variables, that would determine fuel evaporation rate. If that stays below a threshold then it's fine. There either there isn't enough air (when the tank is full) or there isn't enough vapour when the tank is nearer empty The risk cold also be mitigated in the tank design by always having the pump suction above the electrical connections but I don't know and from that picture it doesn't look like it. If the connections get exposed then there would be a risk. That can be ellimated through wiring and connectors designed specifically for hazardous environments. If I ever found myself having to repair wiring where it entered the tank I'd be making sure I used suitable connectors and wiring. I've heard of plenty tanks expoding when being worked on without being sufficiently purged usually welding in the past, but never a tank exploding or bursting into flames due to bad electrics in the tank.

Just curious as I may go down this route, I know Phil is also considering it and heard that Paul Daytona had recommended it (but can't remember where) Wondered if anybody had taken the plunge. I believe later bikes also went to a 10/60 recommendation

Humm haven't been here in a while, echo Phil's post and agree If it's a 5 speeder I don't know they type of box installed to that particular model. The Sportis and HiCams had 5 speeders with the 3 dog clutch as opposed to the older 5 dog and they are pretty harsh on their internals. I thought all the V11s were 6 speeders shows what I know If it's strraight cut then it would probably whine in all gears, but 5th is a known weak link in the 3 dog 5 speed boxes (if it is such a thing) and is usually first to go. The first signs are it whines louder than the other gears. The usual remedy is to put in a helical gear from a bike that's being parted out. My guess is though by the time the V11s were being made all the boxes would have been helical. If it's a 5 speeder then stripping the box is a lot simpler than many imagine, many moons back I did a write up when stripping down an LM 1000 box if you've never been there or a little apprehensive of taking it apart http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_complex-technical_gearbox-rebuilding-pictures.htm Good God was it nearlly 10 years since I wrote that Jeez!!

I did the same a you Cabernet on a Sporti based Magni, with the Magni the dash is difficult to read due to the Magni fairing. So I got a Harley dash and mounted Speedhuts. I had a spare Motogadget sensor lying around so got a mount made and installed the sensor. I then removed the speedo drive internals at the gearbox (which is of course different to the V11 but probably uses the same old speedo output and drive). Remember that second thrust washer which easily falls into the box and can do untold nastiness. I then just blanked it off with a plug like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M16x1-5-BLACK-METRIC-Hex-Allen-Key-BLANKING-PLUG-BUNG-BLOCKER-Male-Oil-Adapter/272164826776?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Seems to work well, I did grind all the lettering off the disc bolts too.

Thank you docc Yeah, plugs out so its spinning close to idle speed. If it's anything like the old spring, the crank and idle pressure will be identical. I don't think many are that interested in the HiCam but I thought this thread might be worthwhile. The agony I've been through trying to understand this engine and the MGS (no I don't own one) changes etc have taken forever and were hard won (and I'm only in the twilight knowledge wise). I'm not that bright but luckily I lucked in when 1) Found Lucky Phil's HiCam thread 2) I'm taking advice from Phil on and off about where to go to next, thank goodness for another "superfan" of these lumps and brimming with experience and know how to boot I'm pretty sure that the pulsing you can see is the spring lifting, so it controls around 82psi but I worry about what will happen when the valve chokes, relatively few revs required for that to happen on cold oil. As I mentioned in the original post, which is a bit long, so a lot may just skim through it and not take it all in. But for anybody thinking about which way to go to eliminate the "Grenade with the pin out" pump there is a lot to chew on, bad news as it is for the cheapskates of this world. A lot think that the MGS-01/V11 chain config must be the "Dog's Doo Dahhs" because the MGS-01 is the pinnacle of these engines. It is but the thing is Guzzi made significant changes to the head design and the MGS heads don't drink oil like a Scotsman finding a pub with free beer in the desert. The pressure on these engines is governed by the relief valve (Duhh) but the kicker is that the valve has only just gotta crack a little and the pressure starts to drop through the floor. Combine that with the heads insatiable thirst for oil and signifcant cooling issues (these engines run toasty hot, well mine does) and you can be balancing on the head of a pin. I've still got a few rabbits in the hat yet, including a new oil cooler, a second oil cooler to be mounted in series to the first and finally going to a 10/60 synth, not to mention perhaps trying to source a halfway house spring. My worrry about the high cold pressure is the rear mains seal, it's not the end of the world to replace but its not a job I'd lke to be doing every time I took her out for a run. John

So ading to an old thread as it's in the same vein, Phil suggested using the Griso relief valve spring instead of the OEM item for the HiCams may up the pressure stopping the relief lifting early so I got me one of them Its obvious the Griso spring is shorter and heavier gauge. Checking the lift with a bicycle foot pump had the OEM lifting at 50 the Griso lifting at 70 psi, hopeful. Installed the Griso springed valve into the bike filled with oil and tried a crank test, plugs out and grounded. A little high for my liking, not sure where to go from here, perhaps a short idle check and see what happens to the pressure when the oil gets toasty. If it's too high as I suspect the next approach would be to measure and send the data (or just the springs) to a spring supplier and request either a custom made or off the shelf spring that approximates to a halfway house giving a pressure around 65-70psi which I reckon would be ideal https://youtu.be/x6gzMWLS740 Still don't know how to insert a YouTube video on here John

You guys must be waaaaay to law abiding, something like that in the UK would either get stolen or spray painted over in a matter of hours There's a very good reason all the cameras are mounted on posts or are difficult to get at, even then it still doesn't stop some of them getting vandilised from time to time. Average speed cameras are probably the way most places will go where practical, unfortunately very effective unless the monitered detection length is known and if they have a few up it becomes just about impossible. Situation will only get worse as the prices of cameras comes down

Ok @Lucky Phil that's handy to know, may try that or at least make sure my stock clearances are on the loose rather than the tigher side. I'd have thought that you'd want to transfer heat to the head from the valve as much as possible, the head surely is running a LOT cooler and the mass of the head will result in a higher thermal inertia, not to mention the oil in it and the airflow over it. Mind if it's hot in the first place the exhaust valves are going to have an even more difficult time................Sodium core valves anybody? Phil's bound to know all about them Your cams are Centauro and mine are RS, slightly different but I don't know if it's significant. Of course Dynotech could just be wanting sell cams From what I can gather from the description Pete it appears that Guzzi must have had issues with the exhaust valves over the years, to go to the trouble of a dedicated pump Looked at the MGS-01 and V11 parts out of interest. They both have similar looking oil coolers but different part numbers, but that's all I got. The MGS also has what I think was a transducer (perhaps going to warning light?) across the cooler but later replaced with a relief if I've got it correct. It also sports lines directly to the heads on the cooler outlet. That's not presesnt on any of the other HiCams........................mmmmmm, wonder if that was a first attempt to feed colder oil directly to the heads. After some messing around it does look like mounting the cooler won't be as bad as I thought, just need to make up some straps and I reckon I can mount it with 4 P clips to the frame rails. One question for the more knowledgeable, most cooler installation feed & return lines to the top of the cooler. I've seen some installations on other bikes where they feed & return to the bottom. I'm guessing the top is desirable to allow gas/air to escape through the lines, rather than potential trapping of air inside the cooler reducing efficiency. Unsure if I'll be able to install with the lines to the top, it will be more difficult for sure due to all the other stuff crammed above the cooler John

Ok Pete I'll gratefully accept your more than generous off. If the Setrab fails to deliver the Stelvio cooler would certainly be an option worth trying, PM me with the shipping costs. You've lived and breathed these engines all your working life Pete, so any advice you care to throw my way I take very seriously so I'll go away for a "think" All I can say from my (very limited) experience, with the RS is that the HiCams seem to behave a bit differently to the 2V engines that I'm familiar with. That's limited to to bikes up to the turn of the last century. I read that Beetle's torque monster engine was stupidly overcooled (paraphrasing his word) but know absolutely nothing about the more recent engines and the technology involved. About the only consensus I can get on the HiCams from outside sources (forums etc:) is the heads run hot. Some seem to be able to tune them to stupid powers and get them to run fine yet mine "appears" to overheat stock. My old stock Daytona which I sold never seemed to have any issues, yet the stage C kit only contributes around 5bhp.........................there just has to be something staring me in the face and I'll be dammed if I can see it Oh and the point of the quote on the cam was that Dynotech Germany offer a cam with a steeper ramp profile that prevents the valve being lifted for long periods and improves the head temperatures. John

Hi Phil Hummmm, that's interesting, depending on where in Germany he is, he'll probably encounter higher ambients in the Summer than we get in Scotland. So you're telling me that Karsten actually junked the cooler and made a loop pipe. Although not to the same degree I do know of another Australia owner, whose bike has the standard Daytona engine but upraded to Stage C. His bike seems to run low oil temperatures too, it has a 10 row Mocal cooler installed and even with a Vee piece across the front of the fairng (from a Ducati to stop muck getting thrown into the engine) his temps are on the low side. Running a 23-25C ambient, he told me 20 minutes to achieve 80C, normal running 90C and extended traffic light stops up to 105C, These temperatures are with the Vee piece in place. The vee piece has raised his oil temps by 5-10C. I wonder if mapping has anything to do with this. Joe Caruso also sent me a screenshot he'd taken from the Daytona Facebook page which originated from Jens Hofmann The Daytona Rs Vam is the Kit cam from Daytona 1000 like you know. This cam has a very long ramp. The result is that the head gets very hot because the valves are 60 ° not presses is the valveseat and cant give their heat away. There seems to more to this as some seem to report good to low temps and others on the high side, but as I've no clue why all I can do is see if the new cooler improves anything The cooler arrived this morning and looks a bit smaller than the standard which doesn't fill me with confidence, but I'll press on anyway as presently I can't see another path to pursue John

This is a long sad saga on how one person can be so stupid and how you should always listen to Chuck. I purchased a low mileage Australia 98 from Japan a few years back, HiCam engine and running gear identical to a Daytona RS As Winter was coming on apart from idling the bike to check as much as I could that all was in order the bike did no running. I purchased a Caruso pump and gear set to remove the "grenade with the pin pulled" oil pump and to a lesser degree the suspect OEM Aluminuim gears for the service shaft and oil pump drive, the OEM crank gear is steel. I also installed an oil pressure gauge and a dipstick temperature gauge. There were other things done along the way but they're not relevant. Come the next summer I took it out for a ride, the first thing I noticed was the low oil pressure on cold oil at idle, around 50-52 psi. The traffic getting out of town was particularly bad, with road works, diversions, queues and snarled up traffic. Just as I got by the worst of this I seen the oil pressure light come in. Went into panic mode looked at the pressure gauge somewhere between 5-10psi. Pulled off into a convenient car park adjacent to me, killed the engine and freewheeled to a stop. Checking the temperature it was in excess of 120C. Waited for well over an hour perhaps longer until the temperature dropped to around 60C and rode home via a backroad a cab driver told me about. On the ride home I was still dropping oil pressure and rising temperature. As I recall it was about 25psi when I got home, I cannot remember the temperature. Although a backroad with less traffic I was still limited to 30mph, so at no point did I really get the chance to get up speed and some real airflow around the engine. With the low pressure at idle I was convinced that the overheating and low pressure were linked and as the pressure was low from the outset thought I'd start there. The 2V bikes I'm used to will run cold idle circa 60-65+ psi. Cutting to the chase after pulling the bike apart several times, installing several pressure gauges, the OEM pump plus another Caruso pump, running multiple experiments swapping over all sorts of parts between my Sport engine and HiCam, dimensioning several bearings and journals (but not all) and about to strip it again. Lucky Phil stepped in and started to make suggestions on checks. These came to nothing BUT give me a far greater understanding of the engine architecture and I'm very grateful to him. Without his intervention I'd probably have had the engine apart (or in a skip). I also got a friend with another HiCam engined bike to install a gauge onto his and he saw 50psi cold idle. This took another interesting turn when Phil fired his blueprinted HiCam, as he had installed a stronger relief valve spring and obtained 105psi. This told me that the pump has more than enough capacity to support engine oil requirements when escaping via the normal engine bleeds & bearings BUT with the relief closed. When Phil then installed the standard spring, his pressure dropped to 50psi cold idle, so the culprit had to be the relief partially lifting early, that Chuck had told me about so long ago. I'm hazarding an "informed" guess here, but think with the large oil feed to the heads, not present on the 2V bikes to anything like the same degree, it doesn't take much lift from the relief for the system pressure to start bleeding down. Joe Caruso has been brilliant and invaluable during all this, providing me with a lot of pump data and insight. One of the facts made me go "WIDE EYED" was the HiCam oil flow from the pump, was the highest of all the bikes of this vintage. The pump gears are longer (all the pump gear diameters are the same) and spinning faster than the V11 or the MGS-01. So that's where I am now, I'm going to install a Setrab 13 row cooler, which involves shifting some components around & will hopefully improve the heat rejection avialable from the cooler. At the moment there is 15/50 full synth in the bike and if I still encounter rising temps the next move will be to step up to a 10/60 to see if the higher viscosity at elevated temperature will sustain the oil pressure. This was also Lucky Phil's suggestion and Paul Minnaert's on a Facebook Daytona page. I've still a ways to go though to complete the cooler install & here we're still under lockdown, so sometime, hopefully sooner rather than later, I'll be able to take it out and see what happens Just thought it might bring a little insight to those of you lucky enough to posess one of these wonderful machines. I'll update this as and when but it will be slow John

Hi Pete very generous of you as always and thank you so much, I may take you up on it later.......................I just took a look on the Bay of Fleas and have you seen what people are asking for some of these parts? You're sitting on a gold mine!!! Right now I need to get the rest of the crap shoehorned into the upper front of the bike to see exactly what's going to fit. Two of the reasons for considering the Setrab/Mocal route apart from the fact I know they will probably fit are 1) I know another Australia owner who runs a 10 row Mocal with dash 8 piping and reports oil temps on the cool side if anything. That's an earlier bike but has been upgraded to a stage C tune. So it's not a broad sump and has a modified Finkentey Klaumann sump and spacer, for the take off to fit a cooler. It can't be a deep sump though as there's no room on the Australia to install one because of the fairing. I have no idea if it makes any difference or not 2)The Setrab/Mocals have a lot of published data on their cooler performance and the upshot is the bigger the better, within reason. Greater heat rejection and lower pressure loss, if you've got a stat to control it. I don't think Guzzi's coolers have as many rows Vs their physical size and I'm desperately trying to maximize heat rejection through the cooler. I need to start a seperate thread on this and the oil pressure behaviour to continually stop Lucky Phil's thread going Off Topic.

Thanks for the update Phil You make me look an utter dullard (not that hard mind). Amazing work and breadth of knowledge you're posting up here. Why are you running a 15M out of interest could you not get your hands on a 16M? Are you planning to do anything regarding the relief valve spring in the future or just let sleeping dogs lie? Tell me about access to the oil pressure take off, it's a compete Bee-atch After doing the cam timing check on mine and trying to install a larger oil cooler where the OEM lived on the HiCam I had to admit defeat. A Setrab or Mocal could be installed but the piping was impossible. I'm now in interation #2 and have relocated the external fuel pump and when the pieces arrive fit the filter (tubing and 2 large P clips). That should free up space between the Alternator cover and front subframe brace. In there I can squeeze a 13 Row Setrab and have sufficient room twixt cooler and sump ports to actually pipe it. I'll post up a separate thread when its done. Pretty simple stuff but it was driving me nuts. I'll also let you know when the Will Creedon chip arrives Please keep this updated it's a gold mine for anybody brave/masochistic enough to venture into the altered reality that is the world of HiCams (Although I still think they are the sexiest lumps Guzzi ever made). John

If you do half the job you did on the V700 Dave it'll easily be like the lower picture. Lucky bike finding such a good home. Calis are amazing machines, I thought they would be Harley like in the their handling until I was out on a group ride years back. I was on a Daytona and the guy in front on a Cali, I had difficulty keeping up with it, could not believe how much they can be thrown around and handle so well. Great bikes, I love these earlier versions

Stunning Dave Wish I was half as talented to do something like that

Thanks Phil All these contributions are very much appreciated. I reckon a 10/60 it is for the HiCam and I'll just continue with my 15/50 in the 2V bikes for now. In Scotland max ambients tend to be mid 20s and when I'm out in the Summer lows probably mid teens. John