Scud Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 It sure would be fun to have a look at an early preselector and pawl spring.. I didn't realize they never broke. When the new springs come in, I'll put one in the greenie and take a closer look. While the majority of the transmission is the same for the whole V11 series, I have personally seen 4 variations in the pre-selector: 2000 Red-Frame (my Greenie) - the preselector gears are cut-through in places and have teeth only about 270 degrees. 2002 First year of black frame (my Scura) - the preselector gears are solid and have 360-degree gears (many of which never get engaged). this one had the too-large boss, which caused spring-binding 2003 with internal fuel pump (my red LeMans) - same as the 2002, but now with smaller boss. Also has the second eccentric adjuster, where the earlier models had only fixed pins. 2004 (a spare tranny from a parted Nero Corsa that mysteriously arrived at my house one day) - this preselector was the same as the 2003, but added the "banana" reinforcement plate. I installed this one on the LeMans, which is off enjoying Arizona with her new owner. So... with all those changes, Moto Guzzi must have been trying to solve some sort of problem. Has Chuck finally solved it? Only time and aggressive shifting will tell. I'm trying to do my part. Maybe we can make that five variations Scud.My greenie has the early selector gears and small dia selector pawl boss,the late spring, the banana link and double eccentric black cover. Once I have the Chuck/Scud spring I've got it all covered:) Ciao Ha - but yours is all custom. I was trying to describe the factory variations. Yet, I think you still don't have the groovy roller bearing on the detent arm to replace the solid disc. Just got back from another lovely 100 miles of steep and twisty. I like how she's shifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footgoose Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 It sure would be fun to have a look at an early preselector and pawl spring.. I didn't realize they never broke. Chuck, I'm not certain they did not break. I'm assuming they were of better quality because of the early bike owner reports I've read here. Only thing I know first hand is the spring in my bike #1 that broke, my other bike #2 which I replaced, the oem spring ordered from Harpers, and the so called "updated" spring from MGCycles, all mic'd at .078. The one from MGCycles had a more rounded bend on the long end, and a few thou larger coiled dia. Both bikes had the 16+mm boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 So, can it be said that a 16mm boss should be turned down to 15mm, or replaced, regardless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footgoose Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 So, can it be said that a 16mm boss should be turned down to 15mm, or replaced, regardless? Yes. I replaced one arm and used a nice file and some patience to get the other one down just under 15mm. Realize, if filing it, it doesn't need to be perfectly round or sized. Just smaller, close to and under 15mm and smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I went looking for some history on the spring break in my later, warranty, box and ran across threads like this (2003): http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1571&hl=+shift%20+spring Seems people have completely disappeared over this in the past. Y'all boys watch your six! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Wow, going back to all those 'shift issue' threads in 2003-2004 sure brings back memories. I hope not to be afflicted with fitful sleep, now . There was even a plan hatched back in those days to build springs, but it hit the wall. The early V11 Gearbox Recall happened in 2003 which cleared up A LOT of shifting problems in the earliest gearboxes. Between LuckyPhil's Shift Improvement thread, the Chuck-made/LuckyPhil Shift Extender, and now this Chuck-designed/Scud-actualized shift spring, and all of the adjusting/tuning/maintenance we've learned about the early 6speeder, I say again what I said back in 2003: "If there is a world's foremost expert on the V11 6speeder, it are us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 So, can it be said that a 16mm boss should be turned down to 15mm, or replaced, regardless? Absolutely. The spring calculator says the ID will be less than 16mm at 39 degrees rotation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Phil Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 So, all you Americans are going to spring along to Scud's for a Spring spring fitting party? I assume you've never been over here? It's a BIG place. It is. After doing around 3 trips to the west coast over the years my wife and I had our honeymoon in the states a couple of years ago and travelled from LA to New York and back by plane. Yep just jump on the plane and 4 hours later your on the opposite coast. Then add the airport fiascos at both ends and, oh yeah, the timezone shifts and bugger we've lost 2 full days there and back. Doesnt seem too big until you go from one side to the other. Ciao You must have a faster plane than we take. It's 4 hours from Indiana to LA non stop. Ha, you're in a bug smasher though Chuck, you know one of those things with a fan on the front to keep the pilot cool:) I just rechecked the flight time LA to NYC and its actually around 5.5 hours. Sure go's quick in coach class with your knees under your chin and elbows digging into your ribs and a flight attendant scouling at you cause you troubled her for a bottle of water. I think i'd rather do it in your machine though Chuck. Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Come on back to The States, LuckyPhil! Word is we're all headed to Scud's like lemmings for a Spring-fest . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Phil Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Come on back to The States, LuckyPhil! Word is we're all headed to Scud's like lemmings for a Spring-fest . . . I'd love to Docc, feel a little like Richard Dreyfuss in Close Encounters, mysteriously drawn to Carlsbad, CA to see the great return spring descend from the sky Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Oh, dear! I came across a pic of Chuck working the Test Bed . . . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Phil Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Oh, dear! I came across a pic of Chuck working the Test Bed . . . Hey thats the same expression I have when I talk to my ex wife:) Ciao 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Thought this might be instructive. Austin, a kid that is working in the shop, has a KLR, and the "upgrade" to the timing chain tensioner is to do away with the coil springs and go to a torsion spring. You can almost see where it goes in this picture. 2018-01-09_02-53-12 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Gimme a nice simple Guzzi.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Is that the fix that the KLR people call the "doohicky"? Our springs are in process. They liked Chuck's engineering drawing and the hand-made sample spring. I should have springs in-hand before the end of this month. Interestingly, they will deliver my ordered quantity plus or minus 10% and charge me for the actual number they deliver. I upped the order to 150, so I will get between 135 and 165 springs. I guess it's hard to predict the exact number of good springs at the end, because a few get damaged in each manufacturing step. I don't know what order they apply each feature (coils, bends, cuts) but they do 100% of each process, then change the machine set up and move all of them to the next process. It's fun to learn about how stuff is made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Yep. Doohicky. I just thought it interesting that they get better performance with a torsion spring compared to the coil spring. If you need any money up front, just say the word. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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