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OMRON G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12 DC12V or Equivalent (CIT A11CSQ12VDC1.5R?)


p6x
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There are a ton of micro-ISO relays that are considered adequate for the V11 until one learns which applications exceed the capacity, or quality, of the individual relay. Hence, the intelligence of knowing where true high capacity relays are desirable.

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7 hours ago, docc said:

Definitely:

Please note that the OMRON in the analysis was a G8HN (10/20A Rated Load) , not the High Current G8HE (20/35A).

The Panasonic CM series relays are 20/35 rated for continuous/switching. Is this what you're referencing docc? Why can't we use the Panasonics? Are they inferior in some way? 

Ciao

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10 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

The Panasonic CM series relays are 20/35 rated for continuous/switching. Is this what you're referencing docc? Why can't we use the Panasonics? Are they inferior in some way? 

Ciao

The only Micro-ISO Panasonic relays I have seen posted are Load Rated (continuous current) 10/20A.

A true High Current Panasonic (they are "usually" Japanese made) Load Rated  20/35 would be great, methinks!

How about a source and a spec sheet?

[EDIT: The important rating is not "Nominal Switching Capacity (Resistive Load)", but "Contact Data: Max. Carrying Current".

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4 minutes ago, docc said:

The only Micro-ISO Panasonic relays I have seen posted are Load Rated (continuous current) 10/20A.

A true High Current Panasonic (they are "usually" Japanese made) Load Rated  20/35 would be great, methinks!

How about a source and a spec sheet?

relay info.pdf

Have a look docc and see if I'm misled

Ciao

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Right, see "2. Specifications, Contact Data, Max. carrying current: N.O. Side: 20 amps, N.C. Side: 10 amps."

I'm not seeing a "continuous current" Panasonic Micro-ISO relay rated above 10/20.

https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/products/relays-contactors/mechanical-power-relays/lineup/automotive/series/2845

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7 minutes ago, docc said:

Right, see "2. Specifications, Contact Data, Max. carrying current: N.O. Side: 20 amps, N.C. Side: 10 amps."

I'm not seeing a "continuous current" Panasonic Micro-ISO relay rated above 10/20.

https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/products/relays-contactors/mechanical-power-relays/lineup/automotive/series/2845

I was looking at this in my attachment.

Ciao

Screenshot 2021-10-11 094724.png

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4 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

I was looking at this in my attachment.

Ciao

Screenshot 2021-10-11 094724.png

On that "Max. carrying current" line, slide across to the next column to the right under "12 V DC / 1 Form C" and you will see the 10/20 rating for N.C. and N.O. contacts.

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16 minutes ago, docc said:

On that "Max. carrying current" line, slide across to the next column to the right under "12 V DC / 1 Form C" and you will see the 10/20 rating for N.C. and N.O. contacts.

Yes I saw that as well so we need the form C then? I'm probably reading what "I want to read" 

Ciao

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Most important to note the rating for "continuous carry current."

Form C ("5-pin/blade") is only required for the front relay on our V11 (Position#1/"Start Relay).

Form A ("4-pin/blade") can be used in all other positions, but don't count on them as spares to swap into Position#1/Start, if needed. Mark your 4-pin / Form A relays and know they will not function in the Position#1/front/"Form C"/"5-blade"/Start Relay.

Yet . . . even if you fit a "good quality" 20 amp/N.O. contacts, of either Form (A or C), to Position#5/the very back/Fuel Injection&Ignition Relay, we are expecting it to handle 22.5 amps (continuous).

Pretty sure the "80% Rule" applies? Any electrical (or other) system will fail if continually run at (or over) 100%. My understanding is that any 20 amp circuit should not be expected to carry, reliably, more than 80% of that capacity (16 amps) continuously. Even in household current.

True and reliable Micro-ISO relays *honestly* Load Rated (continuous current) at 20 amps for the (weak) N.C. [Normally Closed] contact and 35 amps for the (stronger) N.O. [Normally Open] contact are quite obviously hard to come by in the "Micro-ISO" size our V11 uses.

 

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7 minutes ago, docc said:

the "Micro-ISO" size our V11 uses.

 

Exactly, not only the relay needs to fit the bill, but it also needs to fit the ISO socket.

G8HE Rev A

High-Current Micro ISO Automotive Relay G8HE
Available in both SPST and SPDT versions
Miniaturized package (reduced outer length and width)
Designed to meet all standard Mini ISO load requirements
L x W x H = 22.7 x 15.2 x 26.6 mm nominal
ISO footprint with 280-size coil terminals for insertion
error-proofing with standard Micro ISO product
Fully automated assembly

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"Miniaturized package"

Yes, indeed, @p6x, if we could fit physically larger relays somewhere below our seat, achieving the higher current ratings would be a non-issue. 30 - 40 amp automotive relays are very common. As long as there is so much space in the engine compartment to mount them. My experience with our V11 is that is very tightly packaged.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, docc said:

Most important to note the rating for "continuous carry current."

Form C ("5-pin/blade") is only required for the front relay on our V11 (Position#1/"Start Relay).

Form A ("4-pin/blade") can be used in all other positions, but don't count on them as spares to swap into Position#1/Start, if needed. Mark your 4-pin / Form A relays and know they will not function in the Position#1/front/"Form C"/"5-blade"/Start Relay.

Yet . . . even if you fit a "good quality" 20 amp/N.O. contacts, of either Form (A or C), to Position#5/the very back/Fuel Injection&Ignition Relay, we are expecting it to handle 22.5 amps (continuous).

Pretty sure the "80% Rule" applies? Any electrical (or other) system will fail if continually run at (or over) 100%. My understanding is that any 20 amp circuit should not be expected to carry, reliably, more than 80% of that capacity (16 amps) continuously. Even in household current.

True and reliable Micro-ISO relays *honestly* Load Rated (continuous current) at 20 amps for the (weak) N.C. [Normally Closed] contact and 35 amps for the (stronger) N.O. [Normally Open] contact are quite obviously hard to come by in the "Micro-ISO" size our V11 uses.

 

Thanks docc. I went back and re read the relay stuff including the starter relay wiring differences. I have enough Omrons to last me as I bought a batch 4 or 5 years ago. The Royal Enfield also uses the same relay but I'm not sure of the current rating it requires so I'll look into that and save the Omrons for the v11. I guess like most things though the "rated  capacity" is always set conservatively, like "proof load" and "ultimate load" in mechanical stuff so maybe that's what the Guzzi #5 relay is counting on. What was the original bosch relay rated to?

Ciao 

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AFAIK, all the "original" relays were Siemens and rated "10/20".  The very first dealer support I received on my newly purchased 2000 V11 Sport was a visibly larger Siemens Starter Relay (Position#1).

Let's realize that published capacities of available components are no longer "conservative", "proofed" or "ultimate." 

Ryland's  excellent analysis suggests that the GEI (probably also the TYCO, IMO) have been "speculatively" rated.

 

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  • p6x changed the title to OMRON G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12 DC12V or Equivalent CIT A11CSQ12VDC1.5R
  • docc changed the title to OMRON G8HE-1C7T-R-DC12 DC12V or Equivalent (CIT A11CSQ12VDC1.5R?)

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