Lucky Phil
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Posts posted by Lucky Phil
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MAW- baking the part, meaning heating it in a hot oven to dissipate all of the oil out of the part so the welder can make a good weld.
Actually, there is more to it than that. There is a thermal shock element, I think.
At any rate, baking before welding is a better than good idea.
That's somewhat true Chuck, more the mitigation of distortion though I think. The lesser the heat gradient during welding the less distortion. My friend that has vast experience welding Ducati cases showed me how after welding near the main bearing bore the hole became somewhat out of round. The solution?......a hammer and small steel drift and peen around the cases internally adjacent to the main bearing bore and weld and presto tension forces released and bearing bore round again. I have used the clean the cases and warm them up to locate cracks before. The oil will seep out of the crack and is faintly visable. Dye check is way better though. Dont know where the l/h lug crack originates but I do know it has a flat face machined on its outer face with no real radius on it. Anyone confirm if this is where it cracks or is it where the lug joins the main case?
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Maybe the guy has never done this on a V11 before, so his mind is not clouded by *conventional wisdom* and really has found a great way to get the gearbox out&in with minimal wrenching?
Sign of brilliance . . .
Yes, rather clever. The only thing connecting the rear wheel assembly to the frame is the brake line. I would not have thought it possible to get the tranny out without at least somehow disconnecting the engine from the frame.
He will need to be careful getting the swingarm pivots threaded back in without stripping the threads, mine are very fiddly without all that wheel and stuff hanging on to the arm
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Would this be the same part that Doc has on his bike? Number 15, part GU37202805. Looks like they have it in stock. Kind of pricey though.
Depending on stock, etc.. that price is *easily* beatable.
Dont know that this part would fit the V11. The original V11 p/n is 01202830.
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That diagram is for a 1995 Sport (1100) and is the correct part:
GU37202805 Gearbox connecting plate
Let me check my records on the part number I posted to be sure it is not a dealer stocking number or a mistake.
edit: The dealer invoice from 5 Feb 2004, only says "bracket" and "item number" 01202830. ($18.75US back then!)
So, I am not convinced that is the actual Moto Guzzi part number.
It is Docc, straight from the parts manual for a 1999-2000 V11
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Would this be the same part that Doc has on his bike? Number 15, part GU37202805. Looks like they have it in stock. Kind of pricey though.
Depending on stock, etc.. that price is *easily* beatable.
Dont know that this part would fit the V11. The original V11 p/n is 01202830.
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The OEM aluminum alloy piastra colleg on my Sport measures 5 mm (0.197") thickness.
3/16" is ~0.188", or 0.010" thinner, while 1/4" would be 0.053" thicker.
Either would work, but I would personally go with the closest fit since the whole affair is such a tight fit to begin with.
(For the express purposes of mixing inch-measure, metric, fractions, and decimals: ten thousandths of an inch is 1/4 mm, while fifty thousandths is a millimeter and a third )
Thanks Docc, I got both the size and material wrong, doh
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Phil, talked to the shop and they are getting dimensions for a water jet. They seemed agreeable that to make additional pieces.
Ok cool, looks like I was wrong about the size and material of the original plate, sorry.
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Thanks Marty. I went and re-read that thread. I made several posts in there, which are about the same bike as this thread. I never did touch the eccentric adjuster. I could do that - or even swap the whole pre-selector from the other tranny, instead of swapping the whole tranny.
This is the kind of thing where it would be nice to have someone who knows what they're doing ride the bike. It's probably something simple - just as the clutch problem was solved by different springs.
But I'm still puzzled by the fact that engine braking in 3rd followed by upshift to 4th is smooth - whereas running briskly through the gears under acceleration (with normal clutch and slight release of throttle) causes a false neutral (missed shift) between 3rd and 4th.
As I mentioned in my selector rework thread I would never attempt to adjust the excentric on the bike,its way too sensitive for that.Try pulling it off and adjusting it on the bench. It adjusts the relationship between the shift stop and gear selector travel. I found that you can actually adjust it so that in some gears it will underselect the gear and conversly overselect another and fully select the gear and then start to actually pull it out of gear before detenting. It's then up to the gear dogs to drag it fully back into engagement.Try pulling it off the trans, put it on the bench and run through the selecting and you will see the relationship I'm talking about and see how it is in the 3rd to 4th selection. If its not great then adjust the eccentric to optimise this pair even if it compromises another pair a little. I actually added some weld to the stops on one of my transmissions.
Hows it up shift 3rd to 4th without the clutch Scud?
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8mm is just a little smaller than 3/8 in. Why would that matter?
8MM is within a couple of thousandths of 5/16"
I've found 5/16"X 4" so far..
5/16 would work over 8mm I guess. I came to the 8mm decision only by guesstimation based on the original looking like it's 4mm steel and the ally because it's easier to work. From all accounts its tight working in there and I wouldnt like to make a bunch of them without proving the 8mm concept first.
How many would be interested in a plate like this?
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Would this be the same part that Doc has on his bike? Number 15, part GU37202805. Looks like they have it in stock. Kind of pricey though.
It "may" be but the sport used the 5 speed gearbox and the 6 speed engine trans is offset a little in the frame ( 10mm from memory)
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Yeah, I knew you wanted that. I was just wondering if the different lower bracket might be an even better solution. It seems the cracked transmissions are mostly on the red-frame bikes - and the later subframe with the arms to the block may be the reason.
But that bracket should be pretty for you to make. Then maybe you can get Chuck to make 20 of 'em and paint 'em zinc-chromate green.
Ok yep, I'm just so time poor at the moment was looking for a quick couple of hours in the shed solution. Dont feel like the complexity of modding the gearbox case for the seperate subframe of the later bikes. Guess I can always make one from 8mm alloy plate if I can ever get this bathroom construction finished.
Calling Chuck, 8mm ally plate with a nice relief machined in the visable face? how many are we going to need to make it viable?
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Sorry no the one Docc showed on post 36 of this thread.
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Anyone got one of these transmission plates they could sell me or know where I can get one before I hassle around making one? Not available anymore from my parts supplier.
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I pressed a pair of spherical bearings into my stock reaction rod the other day and they fit nicely. I'm having a set of spacers machined now. I'll post the details with pictures once I receive the spacers and get the rod installed.
Very good, look forward to the pictures.
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Phil,
FYI McMaster has rubber bearing seals that might work where you used orings. They should keep dirt away from the bearing but could possibly trap water? I ordered a set to try with my new bearing setup.
Yep, they look perfect.
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When I removed the sump again to check, there was no oil in the filter (I hadn't filled it prior to fitting) which supports this theory. I did fill it before putting it back together, but no change. Any ideas?
Ok whats happened here is due to the gasket not making contact at all the oil hasnt been able to push open the filter reverse flow rubber diaphram and due to the oil flow being from the outer to inner of the filter it would remain empty.
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I like the o-ring idea.
Yes it could also have another one on the other side of the ball but I didn't have one in my oring box. I use the same on my Ducati1000ss which has a horizontally mounted Ohlins steering damper which due to the changing angles during steering needs to rotate radially as well. Due to the horizontal fitment at straight ahead it can flop about so I fit an oring on both sides of the ball which holds it firm but also allows it to compress the orings a little as it moves radially maintaining function. Its all of course totally optional but if you can limit the unnecessary movement the bearing life will be improved.
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This float is present on the 2 gearboxes I have, the one in service and my good spare. This output drive shaft float wont have any effect on the shifting as its simply a spur gear driven shaft with a shock absorbing coupling.
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fwiw, this is what the Ghezzi rod end setup looks like. The rods have plenty of ability to wiggle in a very controlled manner thanks to those spherical bushings. The spacers are just wide enough to hold the inner spherical bushings in place, the outer parts move pretty freely.
(for some reason the site likes to rotate images counter clockwise
)So, if I understand correctly, those spacers are free to turn? Strange..
They shouldnt rotate Chuck. I've had a Rossopuro arm on my bike for years and when I installed it I shimmed the spacers to the bearing inner ball so when the bolt was torqued up it wasnt trying to flex the two brackets together. clearly flexing of the cast brackets isn't desireable but as we know you need to "fettle" a Guzzi. Even aftermarket specific stuff needs "fitting".
I also fitted an Oring of just the right size to one side of the ball that bears on the spacer to put a little resistance on the radial rotation of the arm, just to stop the tendence for it to rock around when there's no need to.
I'll get a picture when I get a chance.
Ok so working from L to R ( top to bottom) is the bracket the spacer then a thin steel shim to eliminate the squeeze,then the inner ball then on the other side the ball again with an oring that sits on the spherical face of the ball to control rod radial rotation a little and cushion the bearing if it does rotate around to its limit then the spacer and the mount bracket.
My advice to anyone that needs a new arm is to buy yourself a Rossopuro one or go to the local machine shop with a piece of say 18mm ally rod and get them to chuck it up drill and thread each end for male rod end bearings go and buy youself a pair and fit it up. The machining process will take about 15 minutes, job done.
Ciao
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I've just fitted a roper plate and a new oil filter (UFI) and now I don't have any oil pressure ( or at least the light isn't going out). For obvious reasons I only ran it for a few seconds. I removed the sump again and double checked everything and it all looked fine. I removed the filter and filled it with oil before putting it all back together again....... same result, no pressure. Would the system need bled or purged for some reason?
The bike was running fine before and the oil light normally goes out immediately. Any ideas would be gratefully received
Sometimes the system just gets an air lock and wont prime. As a last resort if you're too worried about 15 or 20 seconds of light on before you shut it down you can pull the front cover off the engine take the oil pump drive gear off and use a piece of rubber FI hose on the pump shaft and a battery drill to spin the pump and prime the system. Lot of work though.
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Received my new gearbox OEM seals the other day and they are apart from looking like they've been on a dusyt shelf for 50 years identical to Scuds in design. Now to get some time to remove the generic one and install the oem. Hopefully to last longer than a couple of thousand K's.
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Nothing needs to have "been through the engine" to cause an issue, it may have been oil starvation. Having said that the big end shells do look to have some signs of particle contamination in them, maybe from poor assembly. A 25-50mm micrometer to measure the crank pin is cheap as chips, get one off ebay and measure up the pin. Plastigauge is also cheap as chips and an acceptable way to measure big end clearance without the need for a set bore gauges, which are also fairly cheap BTW.
Also look at the internal faces of the oil pump housing where the gear teeth tips run for grooving and scoring. If the pump bearings are really bad its probably worn the housing as well.
How deep is that radial groove in the front cam journal in line with the oil gallery? That journal isnt terribley critical clearance wise.
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Thought about this a little more and realized that the problem is that the tank head pressure would probably screw with the fuel regulator. I assume the return line is vented to the air gap in the tank which would avoid having the head pressure change with fuel level. And if that is true, the return line cannot source fuel anyhow.
No this isnt the case, it just dumps back into the bottom of the tank. The head pressure even with a full tank would be very small. From memory 1 ft of water is around 0.4psi and fuel has a lower SG than water.
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For external pump systems, why wouldn't the return be T-ed into the line between the tank and pump? Does the electric petcock have a 1-way valve?
This MAY work but will add extra plumbing and complexity to an already messy area of the bike. So a balance pipe between the sides of the tank with the return plummed into it and some sort of mount arrangement for the regulator. Also you will be recirculating a proportion of heated fuel which may or may not be a problem in hot climates in traffic. Early Ducati 851's suffered from vapourisation issues in hot traffic until they revised the return plumbing layout. The issue is not whether it can be done its about doing it in an elegant way. Having plumbing running everwhere with additional possible external leakage points is not acceptable to me. I spent quite a while a few years back thinking this issue through and looking at the physical issues and decided it wasnt worth the effort. Big problems are the original tank fittings are very compact and the internal access in the old tanks is very difficult, so any internal mods or possible connection points for modified fittings is very very difficult.
No one way valve fitted in the petcock.
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One thing, your lower sidestand bolts wont have anywhere to bolt to. The other is if you still want to run the oil cooler then you need quite a messy oil filter adaptor plate, custom lines and run the stubby short filter. Forget about running a lower chin spoiler also if thats something you like.
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Gearbox Drip (case crack)
in Technical Topics
Posted
If you follow the face of the lug ( the machined face where the frame member clamps onto) down towards the body of the case from the rounded top there is a small step created by the process of machining the face flat. It then steps out to a wider cast step ( where your fingernail appears to be resting) and then again to the main body of the case. Is the cracs origin at the first small ( maybe 2mm wide) step caused by the machining the lug face?
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