Lucky Phil
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Posts posted by Lucky Phil
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I honestly think it left the factory that way.I may have been a little vague. I first noticed this,oh ,say, 2003...
when I had my first weeping of the rear drive. Upon disassembly,that is what I discovered. And that was probably
80 to 90 k ago.
no metal or swarf in lube....ever.
I did reset the gear depth a bit back then.
Not trying to push my luck, I just always find it amazing how "bad" something can be mechanically and still function
andy
Wow that is amazing. Always good to know what you can "get away with".
Ciao
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No doesnt really work like a conventional automotive clutch. These have lots of toothed plates spline interfaces that are dry and wear. A car clutch has only the friction disk spline to gearbox input shaft spline to rattle around. Even with the clutch engaged and the plates clamped together the drive plates can still rattle around in the flywheel. Thats why when idling and it sounds a bit rattly if you pull and release the clutch quickly they quieten down a little as the plates re-orientate themselves in the splines.
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The problem is Andy with gear face wear that bad the issue will be a fatigue crack in one of the teeth that will eventually break off. For safety reasons I'd rather not be the one riding it when that happens.
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I can tell you from first hand experience Chuck the brake levers are able to be bent back into shape. A little heating with the old soap and propane torch and it will go right back into position.
Nice how to BTW.
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You've got it this far apart, and if there appears to be no leakage from the breather tube into the bell housing from the external hose and fitting you may as well pull the gearbox off and take a look at the breather fitting and engine rear seal and gearbox input shaft seal.
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Leaks? Those arent leaks. Obviously you have never owned a British bike.....or Harley!!!!!
Or an antique airplane.
A little oil is like a little blood. Looks like crap, but isn't much of a *problem.* I think you got a little carried away before really troubleshooting where it is coming from. You mentioned the baby powder (or spray athlete's foot powder trick. Seriously.. you should have done that before getting this far. It will be harder to find out where it is coming from, now. At least do the sniff test so we know whether it is engine or transmission oil.Report back.
Hey Chuck when I was working on Pratt R2000's we lived by the addage you only need to worry when it's not leaking oil, that means its run out
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I agree, look at the breather hose first, that oily mess on top of the gearbox is a bit of a giveaway. If its leaking then fix that and then cleanup the rest and re-appraise. A little bit of oil leaking from the engine commonly creates a somewhat dirty mess further aft. My recent r/h rocker cover leak was leaving oil on my boot and r/h footpeg and the side of the porkchop plate.
I was distracted by the fact that the rear gearbox seal was also leaking and put it down to that and didnt clock the rocker cover leak until the test ride..doh.
A few small drops of oil turned into mist from from airflow from the engine leak can create an oily film on things further back that traps dirt and makes you think that component is leaking.
Just a thought if you cant definitly confirm the rear bevel is leaking.
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Alrighty, let's dive into this. Here's the patient, nervously awaiting surgery..
2017-02-09_05-00-03 by Charles Stottlemyer, on FlickrThe local Duck dealer had the seals.. 5 bux cheaper (Guzzi content) than Dan Kyle, and no shipping. Ohlins is *really* proud of their fork oil, however. 30 bux a liter?
At any rate, knowing full well that fork oil does not = fork oil.. some manufacturers 5 wt. might equal another's 10, etc. I coughed and paid. 
2017-02-09_05-00-35 by Charles Stottlemyer, on FlickrThe adjustable pin spanner is for my angle grinder. It fits, but may be too wimpy to do the job. My pup, Tylon, has the cnc mill tied up for a while, though, so if I have to make one, it'll be the hard way with layout, drill press, and band saw.
Yuck.I *did* make a fork leg holder that way out of some engineering plastic, but that went pretty fast.
2017-02-09_04-57-04 by Charles Stottlemyer, on FlickrHopefully, the pin spanner will work and we'll get into those fork legs tomorrow. Stay tuned.
I made one of those fork cap tools Chuck. Machined out of ally drilled the tool hole and filed it square for a 1/2" drive and used 4 roll pins for the pins. Looks really quite nice and thats with me doing it. You should be able to make something REALLY nice.
Ohlins fork seals from a while back were't great and used to leak a lot, more with bikes that sat around. On my old Ducati SP2 Ohlins forks Honda Goldwing seals were the replacement of choice. No issues with them leaking.
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No, sorry - my order hasn't arrived yet. And I'm going to be away early next week.
Thats cool, whenever you get a chance.
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Hey scud any photos of the new seals yet?
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Yes +1 on Dan, he's the man for Ohlins:)
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That bike sat for about three years in Indiana, which has some bitter cold winters.
Here's the seal I removed from it. The inner part has a wave pattern with 5 crests to complete the circle. You can see two of the crests in the photo.
I was going to mention but questioned my own vision... Lucky Phils photo of the seal with "faint lines" looked to me as going in both directions, IE - wave.
Yes footgoose I think you are correct.
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That bike sat for about three years in Indiana, which has some bitter cold winters.
Here's the seal I removed from it. The inner part has a wave pattern with 5 crests to complete the circle. You can see two of the crests in the photo.
AhHa....excellent work scud......This is another variation. Although the plain faced seals are supposed to be bi directional I have also seen drawings and tech info on ribbed face seals that allow for rotation in either direction with the pattern in a W layout accross the face but this wave style is new to me.
So we have seals with straight angled ribs on them orientated in directions to suit either CW or CCW rotation, seal faces without ribs for either CW or CCW rotation and the wave rib ( as pictured) for CW or CCW rotation and the W type ribs for CW or CCW.
I still think that the directional RIBBED style seals be they CW,CCW or BI directional must be for extra insurance agains leakage and/or for locations that would require significant disassembly to replace, hence the use on crankshaft and gearbox seals.
Will be really interested to see what the OEM replacements look like if you can share a photo scud.
The seal I replaced on my bike 4000klms ago certainly didnt have any ribs or wave pattern so looks like it had been replaced already and I assumed it was just a plain std seal. I was talking the Brad Black ( Brad the bike boy, well known very good Italian bike mechanic here in Melbourne ) at the track the other day and he said he always just uses the OEM seals for replacement as the cost is low and there are no hassles. Looks like good advice.
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I have one of those seals on order from Harpers - should arrive later this week. Will get a good photo when I have it in hand.
The concerns about appropriate quantity of oil may be limited to that thick Redline Heavy Shockproof stuff. After cleaning that mess, I'm going back to the recommended GL-5 gear oil for my transmissions.
Very good, I'll be interested to see what the OEM seal looks like. Yes the Redline sludge photo surprised me although I dont know the storage details but strange none the less.
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Two thoughts on that leaky seal.
Is the gearbox vent blocked, forcing oil out the seal as it heats up?
Or was the gearbox overfull? I took out the gearbox sight glass and blasted it clean with brake cleaner so I could see the level clearly. After seeing the photo of Scudd's Champagne gearbox after he took off the selector plate, I don't think I will rely on draining and adding a quantity of oil. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19680&page=5&do=findComment&comment=216567
Yes good points, I did check the venting and it was fine, the level was to the middle of the sight glass which really should be fine but I have dropped it to the bottom to cover the level issue off. I've been using the Redline heavy oil just recently just for comparison purposes ( shifts about the same as any other oil for mine) and it does have the advantage of color which is really useful when it comes to sourcing the leak.
After the test ride post seal change the gearbox area looked fine but I noticed oil on the pork chop plate the brake lever and my right boot, odd I thought esp since it was a golden color. Then I noticed the rather significant r/h rocker cover gasket leak.....doh. Talk about target fixation on the gearbox leak, I just have to re learn things as I get older it seems.
It appears these directional seals tend to be mainly used in areas that are difficult/expensive to replace for some added insurance over leaking. Most automotive front and rear crankshaft seals and gearbox input shaft etc. The Big Block guzzies also on the back of the crank.
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Here is the HMB Guzzi seal from Hannsons link which they state they only stock the as an OEM part due to quality reasons which is interesting. Is it just me or do i detect faint lines in the sealing face of this seal. Some of these directional seals arnt listed by the OEM as a standard part you can buy but only come as a Ford or GM part etc.
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I'm replacing one now on a bike with 50,000 miles. While I don't know the history, I'd be surprised if the transmission had ever been removed - so I assume the seal was original. There was not evidence of a leak, but I thought I would replace since I had the cover off to clean out the oil, which had solidified.
I replaced the one on my Scura with 12,000 miles. It was fine too - but I replaced preventatively since I was painting the cases.
If you're replacing a seal after 4,000 km, then I wonder if something is wrong with the metal surface that mates to the seal. If a seal hardens, it can cut a groove into the metal. Or maybe the new seal had a small cut from start.
Interesting on the directional seals. Can you post pics or part number when you get a chance?
This is a front transmission seal, note the directional arrow and the ribs on the seal face orientation for a clockwise (r/h twist) shaft rotation when looking front to rear.
This is an anticlockwise (l/h twist seal) note the different orientation of the face ribs. The confusing part in this case is MG cycle are listing this as a V11 rear drive pinion seal which when looking front to rear should be a clockwise directional seal same as the gearbox input seal.Hmmm......I thought I had sourced a 42x56x7 l/h twist seal for the gearbox output shaft but was mistaken. If anyone knows of one let me know.
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Just wondering how many miles people generally get out of this seal. I've just changed another one after only around 4000klms and I suspect its had replacments fitted by previous owners. There is no visible issues with the housing, bearing or shaft finish.
I also noticed during my research that the final drive pinion seal and the gearbox input shaft seals are both directional types and oddly the output shaft seal isn't. I have fitted a new non directional type and will see how it goes.
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All the comments on your weight and condition are legit, but what do these guys know unless they are MD's who have examined you?
Well its about the engineering really, 65LBS extra weight plus the shock loading going through each knee 6 or 7000 times per day doesnt require an MD to work out. Nor does diminishing flexability and core strength required to support your skeletal frame and keep you doing the stuff you want to do.
My Gym is about 45% plus 65 year olds these days and good on them. I'm betting every one of them wishes they had started gym years earlier than they did, but great to see anyway.
The sore butt is easily solved without making your bike look like some daggy old rat bike(aka the lambs wool cover). Go and buy youself a pair of cycling nicks with the padded chamos gusset and wear them under you riding pants. Theres a reason cyclists,myself included can do a hundred KLM ride on something with a seat like a modern pushbike has and still walk at the end of the day....its called riding nicks.
Your a cripple without them after a long pushbike ride and ready to do it all again the next morning when you use them. Needless to say they work a treat on motorcycles as well.
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Of course the other solution is to spend some time at the gym and general exercise including some Yoga and Pilates to specifically maintain your flexability, suppleness and maintain core strenght as you age. Works well for me.
I sat at a table at a gathering once and listened to 2 people go on for 30 min about how bad their knees were and how replacements were on the cards. I also clocked the fact that both were at least 30kg ( 65lbs) overweight and had been for years. Go and pick up 30kg sometime and imagine that weigh going through each knee plus the shock loading for the 5 or 6000 steps you take each day. I said nothing of course because they wouldnt have gotten the point anyway.
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Carefully loosen off the starter while its idiling keeping some rearward force on it and see if it stops. May be the starter solinoid not pulling the gear back all the way.
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You can but , there is no "give" whatsoever with this type of setup .
No "give" is needed. I've used one of these for years without issues. Stock arm is a mass production compromise.
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After 11 years this ones gone to a good home.
And awaiting delivery on this.
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This is true but only because a drum brake system has lost motion due to the shoe clearance to the drum and some mechanical play that needs to be addressed before the fiction surface actually applies force to the drum. The shift mechanism doesn't really have this issue to any extent.I discussed this (lever, linkage efficiency) last year with this older mechanic about brake levers on drum brake mechanisms . He told me , the best brake effort is when the pulled brake lever is at 90 degrees when fully applied .
I do not know how much is helped or hurt when shift linkage is lengthened / shortened ? 6 mm of length will make a BIG difference of lever position .
90 deg is ideal for the shifter input arm but it's not critical within reasonable limits.
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rear drive torque arm
in Technical Topics
Posted
Exactly, you could make one with a decent drill press and machine vice if push came to shove.
Or Chuck could make one with a egg beater drill and a G clamp:)
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