Best Relay

[igor]

3 hours ago, docc said:

AFAIK, OMRON discontinued production of the G8HE micro relay we used. Sure, you may find them used or NOS.

Currently, the Picker Components PC782-1C-12S-R-X is the best we have found with the highest NC contact rating for the #1/start position ( @igor, the first/front relay is the only position requiring the 5-pin/ Form 1C, yet best practice is to use the same 5-pin/ Form 1C in all positions so they can be swapped around as @gstallons noted).

This CIT is a close second and certainly up to our needs:

                                                          A11CSQ12VDC1.5R

 

Hi,

so you confirm the picker components PC782-1C-12S-R-X is the starter relay , because it's the one i think i seem to have problems with . Sometimes the guzzi will start directly and sometimes just a click and no starter action , so i switch the lights off and on try again and after 2 or 3 try outs it starts . Could it be this relay issue or do i need to look in another direction ?

Thanks for your help

[docc]

30 minutes ago, igor said:

Hi,

so you confirm the picker components PC782-1C-12S-R-X is the starter relay , because it's the one i think i seem to have problems with . Sometimes the guzzi will start directly and sometimes just a click and no starter action , so i switch the lights off and on try again and after 2 or 3 try outs it starts . Could it be this relay issue or do i need to look in another direction ?

Thanks for your help

Hi, @igor!

It is worth using this relay in all positions on all V11 SpineFrames, yet the starting circuit on your LeMans will likely benefit from the addition of a separate start relay for what our member @Kiwi_Roy calls "Startus Interuptus."

Here is @stewgnu's wiring diagram of that modification:

It is also notable that @stewgnu's starting issue was traced to the starter. itself:

And a Kiwi_Roy post with further explanation including advice to inspect, clean, and lubricate the ignition switch:

 

[gstallons]

 The starter relay mod (as pictured ) is THE mod to perform as it keeps the current off the micro relay and onto a conventional mini ISO relay to power the starter solenoid.  IDK why these companies run the high current through light switches , starter solenoids ,etc. knowing this is a Mickey Mouse setup .  I used a weatherproof mini ISO relay and connector to operate the starter solenoid . 

[docc]

On 3/8/2025 at 4:41 PM, gstallons said:

 The starter relay mod (as pictured ) is THE mod to perform as it keeps the current off the micro relay and onto a conventional mini ISO relay to power the starter solenoid.  IDK why these companies run the high current through light switches , starter solenoids ,etc. knowing this is a Mickey Mouse setup .  I used a weatherproof mini ISO relay and connector to operate the starter solenoid . 

Just a wee clarification, if I may . . .

Early V11 Sports do not suffer classic Startus Interuptus like the LeMans and later variants that send the start current through through the ignition switch and back to the starter solenoid.

The early V11 does benefit from a robust (true high current) micro relays, especially in Position #1/start. As do all V11 Spine Frames benefit from the high current relays, just that the later variants need the extra start relay as Kiwi_Roy has described. IIRC, someone was making a kit for this. Was it "Eastern Beaver?"

[gstallons]

I just do it as a safety factor . ABSOLUTELY no problems !

[Molly]

The willingness with which people share their expertise and experience says something very positive. 

Just a thought after wading through twenty-three pages on relays. :-) 

I was checking to see if the ones I have are good or not. I haven't been carrying spares so that's something I'll need to address. 

 

 

 

[gstallons]

A lot of relay selections will give you an amperage rating for the current carrying abilities of the contacts at the on position and off position. The relay in this application needs to be at 30a or more on both circuits. It carries the starter current when the relay is energized and the headlight current in the off position.  Both these circuits are important. 

 I assume you have installed the extra relay to energize the starter relay ? It is not hard to do and it gives you satisfaction knowing you will get the starter solenoid current off the starter button and the start relay.

 A quick look says , The Bosch relay has a 10a rating and the Wehrle relay has a 10/25a rating . Short answer= NO

Edited May 27 by gstallons
more info

[docc]

The "Werle" looks to be 15 amps (NC) and 25 amps (NO). This should be adequate for all positions and the name implies it is German and the ratings should be reliable.

I did not look up that Bosch data sheet, but 10/20 rated relays should be avoided in our V11.

[Note that the early V11 Sports, 1999-2001, do not benefit from the added start relay of the later V11, yet require a true High Current relay in position #1. The presently available High Current relays are linked in the "Answer" ppost on page 5, preferably the Pickers Components, yet also the CIT:

 

[gstallons]

It is rumored these are NLA . You will have to search and find them . Get 10 of them because they are a good thing to have on the shelf . 

[docc]

22 minutes ago, gstallons said:

It is rumored these are NLA . You will have to search and find them . Get 10 of them because they are a good thing to have on the shelf . 

The OMRON we so long relied upon are NLA.

The Pickers Components are presently our best option with the CIT running a close second.

[audiomick]

9 hours ago, docc said:

The "Werle" ... the name implies it is German ...

Austrian, it seems. And you left out an "h".

https://www.wehrle-electronics.com/?LNG=en

 

This seems to be the closest thing to the one pictured above. Maybe a subsequent model.

Unfortunately, they don't seem to provide data sheets on their site.

https://www.wehrle-electronics.com/en/products/switching-relays/micro-relays/micro-relay-12v/

 

EDIT: I think it is worth mentioning again, that one should also pay attention to the physical size of a potential replacement relay. A while back, I did a bit of research on the topic, and discovered that they can vary in height by as much as 5 mm. . There is not much clearance between the relays and the seat. If I recall rightly, mine shows some signs of contact between the top of one of the relays and the bottom of the seat, so a relay that is higher than the ones that are in there would not be so good.

Edited May 27 by audiomick

[audiomick]

Has anyone mentioned this one yet?

https://www.zhejianghke.com/hke-4133-12v-24vdc-1-form-a-and-c-contact-miniature-heavy-duty-general-purpose-automotive-relay/

It was recommended in a German language forum by someone who's advice I value highly.

The person that made the recommendation considers the relays to be "Verschleißteile", i.e. consumables, parts subject to wear and tear. He changes his relays at the latest every four years on principle.

He named this source, and at the price of €2.99 each, changing them every few years shouldn't hurt too much. 

https://www.voelkner.de/products/850370/HKE-4133-S-DC12V-C-R-Kfz-Relais-12-V-DC-35A-1-Wechsler.html?offer=93e6ea03ad7817bcc6bd3238ad7488c3

 

PS: I searched the part number and got a good number of hits. I have the impression that the relays are readily available.

PPS: going by the drawings in the site behind the first link, they are 22mm high. From memory, that is at the lower end of the range, and should fit in under the seat quite well. 

Edited June 3 by audiomick

[docc]

1 hour ago, audiomick said:

Has anyone mentioned this one yet?

https://www.zhejianghke.com/hke-4133-12v-24vdc-1-form-a-and-c-contact-miniature-heavy-duty-general-purpose-automotive-relay/

It was recommended in a German language forum by someone who's advice I value highly.

The person that made the recommendation considers the relays to be "Verschleißteile", i.e. consumables, parts subject to wear and tear. He changes his relays at the latest every four years on principle.

He named this source, and at the price of €2.99 each, changing them every few years shouldn't hurt too much. 

https://www.voelkner.de/products/850370/HKE-4133-S-DC12V-C-R-Kfz-Relais-12-V-DC-35A-1-Wechsler.html?offer=93e6ea03ad7817bcc6bd3238ad7488c3

 

PS: I searched the part number and got a good number of hits. I have the impression that the relays are readily available.

PPS: going by the drawings in the site behind the first link, they are 22mm high. From memory, that is at the lower end of the range, and should fit in under the seat quite well. 

While these relays are shown to be 35 amp NO/ 20 amp NC, it is not specified whether that is "continuous current" or inrush. I suspect it is the inrush value. This specification, then, over-rates the relay's capacity for carrying continuous current (our application).

Re-reading the data sheets for the Pickers Components and the CIT, I see the rating on the Pickers Components is "Resistive" (continuous) and the rating on the CIT is "switching" (inrush?) . . .

I am more inclined to trust the Pickers Components over everything else currently available.

edit: I see, now the "HKE" is 35 amps "switching capacity:

                             "Switching capacity 35A "

          Also, I see no declaration of contact material (silver alloy being preferable).

[MartyNZ]

2 hours ago, audiomick said:

The person that made the recommendation considers the relays to be "Verschleißteile", i.e. consumables, parts subject to wear and tear. He changes his relays at the latest every four years on principle.

I think he is right. It's way better to throw out relays every 4 years than to have th bike stop on the side of the road.

[docc]

7 minutes ago, MartyNZ said:

I think he is right. It's way better to throw out relays every 4 years than to have th bike stop on the side of the road.

Just pulled and discarded the two CIT I have been "testing" since October 2021 . . .