Fuel injectors

[gstallons]

I send mine off messed up and they come back and I'm happy. They send a report of before/after.  I think I use RC Fuel Injector Service . I like to keep my injectors the same ones that are on the bike w/so much junk on the market I am afraid to go with something else. 

[Dragonknee]

2 hours ago, docc said:

@Dragonknee, what specifically has determined it is an injector problem?

TPS adjusted , Valves adjusted, Fuel filter replaced, new plugs, new air filter, and fresh gas. The bike was sputtering and bucking under 3 grand and runs smooth above for the most part and pulls well. The person that did the work is a pro mechanic and has 20 plus years as a lead mechanic at a Guzzi shop called Moto International. The bike has not been run for years, and the prior owner didn't do anything with it but once and a while run it around the block. Tapping on the injector brought it to life and its now functioning and we surmise that its the injector being fowled a bit. Once I have it cleaned using the fuel injection cleaner, I will adjust the Power commander on it for more fuel if need be. My next thought is to pull them and clean them.

[docc]

No mention of throttle body balance (?)

Tapping on the injector may have simply affected the electrical connection. Perhaps worth treating all the electrical connections with something like (there is nothing like) Caig DeOxit® . . .

[Dragonknee]

5 minutes ago, docc said:

No mention of throttle body balance (?)

Tapping on the injector may have simply affected the electrical connection. Perhaps worth treating all the electrical connections with something like (there is nothing like) Caig DeOxit® . . .

Yes that was done as well, I'm tired and didn't remember that... 

 

[Lucky Phil]

3 hours ago, audiomick said:

Do you mean that as a general statement, or that you can't find a business that does it?

The reason I ask is because an internet search here (in German) turns up several hits for companies like this one

https://www.bar-tek.com/injector-service-normal-manifold

They seem to be mostly aimed at car owners, but an injector is an injector, regardless of what vehicle it is mounted in (apart from whether it is a diesel or a petrol motor).

 

EDIT: having read the text on that site, maybe they are only offering that which @Lucky Phil describes. Still, I'd not be disinclined to have a "professional" who has experience and is set up to do the work check the flow rates and spray pattern.

 

They are just cleaning and checking the injectors Mick not any form of overhaul or repairing pintle seats etc. You can buy  an injector cleaner and tester for modest money these days.

https://www.vxdas.com/products/summary-powerjet-pro-240-injector?variant=40017283055698&country=US&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&srsltid=AfmBOooZngAvyEqacU2Okplm1rpjn46UZodv0bEw-bTpZ7kwkHftHHOma0k

[gstallons]

7 hours ago, docc said:

No mention of throttle body balance (?)

Tapping on the injector may have simply affected the electrical connection. Perhaps worth treating all the electrical connections with something like (there is nothing like) Caig DeOxit® . . .

I can't explain what happens , I just know it works

[gstallons]

I worked on a 88 Chevy p-up w a 350 TBI that had been sitting a couple of years . No start= no fuel injector spray. Tapped on the TBI unit (extremely) close to the injectors and it cranked and ran. I kept this secret to myself until now.

[Dragonknee]

57 minutes ago, gstallons said:

I worked on a 88 Chevy p-up w a 350 TBI that had been sitting a couple of years . No start= no fuel injector spray. Tapped on the TBI unit (extremely) close to the injectors and it cranked and ran. I kept this secret to myself until now.

It's a worthwhile try when all else fails... I have to work with the power commander on it next to richen it up a bit and see if that takes it away. Its weird to jump from my ratty Suzuki 1200 Bandit on to the Lemans.. I look for the power of the 1200 but its a different world for sure. I will bond again with the Lemans once it is all set up. I was hit on my 2002 Lemans by a 84 year old man in a dark tinted window SUV and it sucked to lose that Lemans as it worked well for me. This bike will be a replacement for it.

[docc]

Just now, Dragonknee said:

It's a worthwhile try when all else fails... I have to work with the power commander on it next to richen it up a bit and see if that takes it away. Its weird to jump from my ratty Suzuki 1200 Bandit on to the Lemans.. I look for the power of the 1200 but its a different world for sure. I will bond again with the Lemans once it is all set up. I was hit on my 2002 Lemans by a 84 year old man in a dark tinted window SUV and it sucked to lose that Lemans as it worked well for me. This bike will be a replacement for it.

FWIW, just adding "more fuel" has been shown to be the wrong path for the V11, for various reasons. More success has been achieved unplugging the PC and making certain all of the tuning parameters are correct.

[Dragonknee]

19 minutes ago, docc said:

FWIW, just adding "more fuel" has been shown to be the wrong path for the V11, for various reasons. More success has been achieved unplugging the PC and making certain all of the tuning parameters are correct.

This was tuned to another bike. It hasn't been set up for mine. I'm giving it a shot to see if it helps and gets it closer and if it doesn't then I will take the bike to a dyno. I'm trying not to spend the 6-700.00 bucks to dyno it and doing what I can myself. I live 2 or more hours from anywhere and at least one ferry ride to get over the pond to Seattle. I hate going into town. If all else fails I will take the PC off and run it with stock tuning and pipes to see how that responds. I have 5 bikes in the garage and its a choice with each one how much I will spend to make them what I want... I have a 87 MG Sp2 that is next and its carbed... another rabbit hole...LOL

Edited May 29 by Dragonknee

[audiomick]

4 hours ago, Dragonknee said:

... take the PC off and run it with stock tuning and pipes to see how that responds....

That is the first thing I would do. Someone else has been buggerising around with it, and you have no way of knowing if it all makes sense. The best thing to do is go back to the base-line, and make your own decisions from there.

Also, please read what @pete roper recently wrote on the subject. I reckon it might be relevant for you too.

Quote

Using a correctly constructed aftermarket map allows you to achieve far more, far better, than using a shitty add-on like a Power Commander or the like.

 

PS: I didn't see you mention the motor position sensor. I have very reliable advise that it only a matter of time before they fail.

My V11 Le Mans runs very badly between 2 and 3,000 r.p.m, and that sensor is what I'll be looking at next. No idea if that is logical, but I'm pretty sure the issue has nothing to do with the fuelling, but rather with the spark management somehow.

Edited May 29 by audiomick

[PJPR01]

1 hour ago, audiomick said:

My V11 Le Mans runs very badly between 2 and 3,000 r.p.m, and that sensor is what I'll be looking at next. No idea if that is logical, but I'm pretty sure the issue has nothing to do with the fueling, but rather with the spark management somehow.

Are you 100% certain that the TPS sensor is set at exactly 157 mv?  

[audiomick]

21 minutes ago, PJPR01 said:

Are you 100% certain that the TPS sensor is set at exactly 157 mv?  

It is very close to that. I don't remember if I got it to exactly 157, but within a couple of mV for sure.

Why I'm happy within "a couple": I watched Bernd, the author of Guzzidiag, and Karsten, the chief administrator of the German forum out of which Guzzidiag was born, set up a V11 a couple of years ago. Bernd was on the computer, and Karsten was on the screwdriver. Karsten got 160 mV, and was satisfied with that.

The value 157 mV came from Meinolf, also a member of that forum. There is contact and discussion between the three of them on the subject, so I reckon if Karsten and Beard (Bernd) are satisfied with "within a couple of mV", it is probably good enough for me.

Don't get me wrong, 157 mV is the target. But if practicalities like how the thing jumps a bit when you tighten up the last turn of the screw get in the way, you don't have to have kittens about a mV or two.

PS: the V11 in question ran very well after the tune-up, and the owner was delighted. It was a Greenie.

 

Edited May 29 by audiomick

[Lucky Phil]

6 hours ago, Dragonknee said:

It's a worthwhile try when all else fails... I have to work with the power commander on it next to richen it up a bit and see if that takes it away. Its weird to jump from my ratty Suzuki 1200 Bandit on to the Lemans.. I look for the power of the 1200 but its a different world for sure. I will bond again with the Lemans once it is all set up. I was hit on my 2002 Lemans by a 84 year old man in a dark tinted window SUV and it sucked to lose that Lemans as it worked well for me. This bike will be a replacement for it.

Why would you want to use rubbish like these when Guzzidiag is available for free is beyond me. Even if I already own one it would sit in the draw unused these days.

[PJPR01]

1 hour ago, audiomick said:

It is very close to that. I don't remember if I got it to exactly 157, but within a couple of mV for sure.

Why I'm happy within "a couple": I watched Bernd, the author of Guzzidiag, and Karsten, the chief administrator of the German forum out of which Guzzidiag was born, set up a V11 a couple of years ago. Bernd was on the computer, and Karsten was on the screwdriver. Karsten got 160 mV, and was satisfied with that.

The value 157 mV came from Meinolf, also a member of that forum. There is contact and discussion between the three of them on the subject, so I reckon if Karsten and Beard (Bernd) are satisfied with "within a couple of mV", it is probably good enough for me.

Don't get me wrong, 157 mV is the target. But if practicalities like how the thing jumps a bit when you tighten up the last turn of the screw get in the way, you don't have to have kittens about a mV or two.

PS: the V11 in question ran very well after the tune-up, and the owner was delighted. It was a Greenie.

 

Fair enough...although German precision is known for being precise...so that's good to know we have a + or - of a couple of millivolts to play with.  It is truly a pain to get it on the nose when tightening up.

Valves adjusted properly...that could drive some chuffing or mixed performance perhaps.  When you say it runs badly, it's missing or coughing?