Starter motor repair

[p6x]

I found someone selling V11 starter motors in the Czech Republic: https://www.motorkari.cz/motobazar/nahradni-dily/elektricky-system/startery/moto-guzzi-v11-1100-1999-2006-elektricky-starter-motoru-1479419.html

About 140 USD.

[p6x]

As my QUOTA is still unavailable, I decided to take the Le Mans to do some Texas Tour stops yesterday.

The initial plan was to do seven, but I had to settle for three.

The starter motor, which had been perfectly doing its job since I last reported the misfit, attempted to let me down at the last Republic of Texas boundary marker.

Here I am facing one of the worst issue one could have: a recurring, intermittent failure. I am very familiar with these as they are the most dreaded ones.

Like when I first experienced it, the starting of my Le Mans worked perfectly until it did not. As I am typing these lines, the starter motor works as if nothing ever happened.

It is obvious that it is the starter motor itself. No question about it. What I have a hard time understanding, is why it is intermittent. What could cause the starter to stop working all of a sudden?

I rode 172 miles to San Augustine with one refueling stop in between. No issue.

I then rode to the Republic of Texas boundary marker at Logansport, LA. Stopped to take the photo and... no crank. Lights dim, but the starter does not generate enough torque to turn the engine. Cool down 5 minutes; repeat; cool down 5 minutes, repeat, normal crank...

Next refueling stop, the starter motor worked as if nothing had happened, same as when I first reported the problem.

It is not a case of "startus interruptus" since the circuit has been modified on my Le Mans, power is routed through a relay.

It is not the battery, since I charge it every three month, as recommended by battery wizards. Although it is a new battery.

In between my trips for the Texas Tour, I run errands, not a single symptom or clue. The starter motor works normally.

Thoughts? Experience?

[Pressureangle]

2 Spine Raids ago, my starter locked up. It had been giving me clues and warnings, with slow starting and low cranking voltage I blamed on the battery. In the end, it was the starter; I did not disassemble it to discover whether it was magnets or bearing failure, but it was drawing over 300 amps stalled on the bench, then half the time it would turn but even on the bench drew something like 80 amps. The new replacement draws about 80A initial pull-in then about 40 turning the motor, iirc. There's a thread around here somewhere with the specifics.

[gstallons]

40 minutes ago, p6x said:

As my QUOTA is still unavailable, I decided to take the Le Mans to do some Texas Tour stops yesterday.

The initial plan was to do seven, but I had to settle for three.

The starter motor, which had been perfectly doing its job since I last reported the misfit, attempted to let me down at the last Republic of Texas boundary marker.

Here I am facing one of the worst issue one could have: a recurring, intermittent failure. I am very familiar with these as they are the most dreaded ones.

Like when I first experienced it, the starting of my Le Mans worked perfectly until it did not. As I am typing these lines, the starter motor works as if nothing ever happened.

It is obvious that it is the starter motor itself. No question about it. What I have a hard time understanding, is why it is intermittent. What could cause the starter to stop working all of a sudden?

I rode 172 miles to San Augustine with one refueling stop in between. No issue.

I then rode to the Republic of Texas boundary marker at Logansport, LA. Stopped to take the photo and... no crank. Lights dim, but the starter does not generate enough torque to turn the engine. Cool down 5 minutes; repeat; cool down 5 minutes, repeat, normal crank...

Next refueling stop, the starter motor worked as if nothing had happened, same as when I first reported the problem.

It is not a case of "startus interruptus" since the circuit has been modified on my Le Mans, power is routed through a relay.

It is not the battery, since I charge it every three month, as recommended by battery wizards. Although it is a new battery.

In between my trips for the Texas Tour, I run errands, not a single symptom or clue. The starter motor works normally.

Thoughts? Experience?

I will tell you how to fix it . You call EuroMotoElectrics tomorrow and order a new starter . They sell two different quality starter motors. Buy the OEM Valeo motor and be done with it. You want to ride not push . Their # is 1-303-526-0901.  IDK their hours of operation but you can Google their website,  Mine ws around $220 w/shipping . I am keeping the old one just to dismantle and look at . Two sessions of ignition switch hanging on and staying engaged w/o me knowing it until it killed the battery made this starter a dull boy.

[p6x]

23 minutes ago, gstallons said:

I will tell you how to fix it . You call EuroMotoElectrics tomorrow and order a new starter . They sell two different quality starter motors. Buy the OEM Valeo motor and be done with it. You want to ride not push . Their # is 1-303-526-0901.  IDK their hours of operation but you can Google their website,  Mine ws around $220 w/shipping . I am keeping the old one just to dismantle and look at . Two sessions of ignition switch hanging on and staying engaged w/o me knowing it until it killed the battery made this starter a dull boy.

MGcycle, has a replacement starter listed as:

Alternate starter GU30730710 for $120.00 in stock.

It says:

Alternate starter suitable for all big twins. Similar to the Valeo starter; these starters are lighter, crank faster while drawing less current.

This starter is a direct replacement for OEM GU30730710, GU30730711.

I checked Euro MotoElectrics: they have the Valeo and another brand "Enduralast" that looks exactly like the one MGcycle proposes, although the powerating of both is the same: 1.2 kw @270 A.

What I like is that Euro MotoElectrics has the instructions to overhaul the Valeo starter; http://www.largiader.com/tech/valeo/

The first thing I am going to do, is to remove the starter, and check its Valeo P/N.

[gstallons]

The # on the starting motor I removed is 26D0  0900**M The ** is where the clamp disfigured these 2 #s . The there is a D6R21 and it is above the UPC . I bought the MG-VAL3 .  

I could have disassembled mine ad installed a $80 starter drive but after 2 10 min sessions of continuous starter spin ., NO WAY . There are some things you don't buy looking at the lower right corner . I hope you don't buy parachutes at  WalMart. This is one of those things .

I put a fork in this starter for Whitney when I first met him . He thought it was the drive but it was ok. After 2 10 minute sessions of continuous starter , I am not taking chances .  I may remove some things and spray Graphite lube on the flywheel teeth to quiet this thing down . 

[gstallons]

I hope this is your V 11 you are working on ?

[p6x]

5 minutes ago, gstallons said:

I hope this is your V 11 you are working on ?

Yes it will be. By the way, I just went down to start it, and it did like nothing ever happened.

I am thinking the problem I have, has to do with the heat. Because as far as I can tell, I never had that issue during cold starts.

In any case, the starter is coming out.

[gstallons]

Well , get a pair of hemostat clamps and pull the starter engagement wire off the stater and put your test light into the wire and have someone to "crank" the bike . If the light lights up , your problem IS the starter , If there is no light , you have a circuit problem .

[gstallons]

If it is in the circuit , it will be time to get the Royal Wiring Diagram out and start lookin' !

[Pressureangle]

I bought the MG Cycle starter, and it's been sterling- for 2 years and 50 starts. <shrug> there was no visible difference from the Valeo it replaced, right down to the rivets used to prevent maintenance. They may come out the back door of the Chinese factory that Valeo owns.

[p6x]

59 minutes ago, gstallons said:

Well , get a pair of hemostat clamps and pull the starter engagement wire off the stater and put your test light into the wire and have someone to "crank" the bike . If the light lights up , your problem IS the starter , If there is no light , you have a circuit problem .

There is no doubt in my mind, the starter assembly is the problem. Since the starter button is connected to the Solenoid switch, via a relay.

The Moto Guzzi spare parts catalog's nomenclature lists a "starter motor revision kit", which could be the modification to prevent the magnets getting loose.

My first task will be to get the Valeo model identified if possible.

 

[p6x]

39 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

50 starts

Only 50 starts in two years? you have too many bikes....

[Pressureangle]

13 minutes ago, p6x said:

Only 50 starts in two years? you have too many bikes....

Yes, yes I do. It's more a time and place thing than a too many bikes thing. I don't ride at all in S. Florida anymore unless it's a special occasion or necessity.

[p6x]

10 hours ago, Pressureangle said:

Yes, yes I do. It's more a time and place thing than a too many bikes thing. I don't ride at all in S. Florida anymore unless it's a special occasion or necessity.

Mind you, at the rate we are going, we won't be able to ride anywhere the way floods seem to affect us.

I am freshly back from Sedona AZ, while the temperatures were well over hundred, it was completely bearable when there isn't any humidity.

Furthermore, Sedona to Flagstaff via 89A is a dream road for motorcyclists; then Flagstaff is about 25 degrees cooler because of the elevation. Too bad Sedona is packed like any other tourist destinations.