Urg- starting issue

[stewgnu]

Hi fellas,

I’m just struggling to identify a starting issue, hoping you can shed light on it.

On the face of it the starter is very sluggish to turn.  I had it off the bike and it did seem to function fine, so i refitted it, cleaned the connections, fitted a new pc545, and re-crimped all relays at the base (as there were a few bad connections and some were being pushed back out of the blocks).

The starter solenoid flicks fine but is extremely laboured on spinning.  It got very hot quite quickly too.

The PO had bypassed the safety circuit by cutting and tying the white wires together.

Am I looking at a problem with the ignition switch? Or could the starter be on it’s way out?

Appreciate any pointers!

[docc]

Did you remove the rear cover to the starter motor and verify all of the magnets are still adhered and spaced correctly?

[stewgnu]

17 minutes ago, docc said:

Did you remove the rear cover to the starter motor and verify all of the magnets are still adhered and spaced correctly?

I did not no- but i will this weekend, thanks docc.

One other thing i didn’t mention earlier was that occasionally the bike exhibits the ‘click, no start’ issue too.  So i’ll be looking into sorting a go-winkie out i suppose.

[docc]

Pretty characteristic of the Ignition Switch for the later V11 like yours. It really is quite straight-forward to get to and take apart for inspection, cleaning, and a good dose of some "treatment" (Caig DeOxit or even a petroleum Jelly like Vaseline®).

[stewgnu]

Right o.

 If, when i pulled the starter, and bridged the contacts to check it, it seemed to fire and spin normally, would that rule out magnet problems?

[docc]

28 minutes ago, stewgnu said:

Right o.

 If, when i pulled the starter, and bridged the contacts to check it, it seemed to fire and spin normally, would that rule out magnet problems?

 I'll ask the talented tech that actually discovered the cob starter.

[docc]

Yep, he said if the magnets fail, the starter locks.

Thinking you should next look at the Ignition Switch.

[stewgnu]

It was the starter magnets.  2 of them had come loose and were jammed up against the casing.

Of course, I had checked the main earth point, forward bullet connectors and ignition switch first, naturally…. but yeah the starter was proper mullered!  Got a dessert spoons worth of rust and magnetic debris when i opened it.  No wonder it was getting hot.

Thanks again docc!

[Pressureangle]

Read this thread. My starter seized the front bearing and had apparently been the root of hard starting for quite some time before complete failure.

 

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23219-starters-batteries/#comment-265184

 

[stewgnu]

i thought it was a drop in current- almost started to check/pull apart/adjust/butcher the wiring system.

doccs suggestion to check the starter magnets was champion- un-doing a few nuts+bolts revealed the issue.

[Tinus89]

On 11/7/2021 at 3:47 PM, stewgnu said:

It was the starter magnets.  2 of them had come loose and were jammed up against the casing.

Of course, I had checked the main earth point, forward bullet connectors and ignition switch first, naturally…. but yeah the starter was proper mullered!  Got a dessert spoons worth of rust and magnetic debris when i opened it.  No wonder it was getting hot.

Thanks again docc!

I had the exact same. Sometimes a slow start, sometimes fine, sometimes click-no start (and battery voltage WITH a road-side assistance car battery hooked up) dropped to 7V when pushing the starter button.... 2 loose magnets in the can.

[stewgnu]

11 hours ago, Tinus89 said:

I had the exact same. Sometimes a slow start, sometimes fine, sometimes click-no start (and battery voltage WITH a road-side assistance car battery hooked up) dropped to 7V when pushing the starter button.... 2 loose magnets in the can.

Well I fitted a new starter today and it cranks the engine fine now.  However it’s still sometimes just clicking without cranking…. sounds like the solenoid is firing but can take a few presses of the button to actually spin up.

Could it just be a low battery?  Or some crud in the button i’m thinking…  Hmm

[Weegie]

@docc can the V11 suffer starter interuptus?

Just wondering, seems a common problem on other models especially if the battery isn't quite up to snuff

[docc]

24 minutes ago, stewgnu said:

Well I fitted a new starter today and it cranks the engine fine now.  However it’s still sometimes just clicking without cranking…. sounds like the solenoid is firing but can take a few presses of the button to actually spin up.

Could it just be a low battery?  Or some crud in the button i’m thinking…  Hmm

Take a multi meter to the battery after it has been sitting for a few hours. If it's an AGM (especially the Odyssey PC545), voltage below 12.65 (~85%) should be cause to "condition" the battery (charge to 14.7v [15.0 volts max] with at least 6 amps).  Don't expect a weak "trickle charger to bring it up, especially if the static voltage is below 12.5.

Also, are you using a reliable High Current relay?

[docc]

4 minutes ago, Weegie said:

@docc can the V11 suffer starter interuptus?

Just wondering, seems a common problem on other models especially if the battery isn't quite up to snuff

The early V11 (1999-2001) stress the first relay instead of using the Ignition Switch to start. Beginning 2002, Startus Interuptus is possible in a V11. Often, simply servicing the Ignition Switch can make a difference, otherwise it's back to adding a relay to the start circuit.