X minus 110mm (airspace) equals?

[LaGrasta]

Received my forks from Andreani, only to find one of my supplied fork seals leaked all the way home. The box was saturated. I pulled it apart,  installed a new seal, and now need only to fill it with fluid. The only number I have from them is 110mm air space. Does anyone know the OEM fork oil level? 

Thanks

[LaGrasta]

…found it, 400cc, each fork leg.

[activpop]

Guess we know what you're doing this weekend...

[docc]

Regardless of the stated volume, the air gap is used to further tune the effective damping. FWIW, YMMV, my [100 mm] air gap yielded a 370  330 ml per leg volume.

[edit: corrected after referencing my notes.]

[LaGrasta]

I understand @docc, and agree. After sleeping on it, I thought I might try the air gap method, afterall. The difficulty is however, it must be filled with only the cartridge installed, no spacer, no spring. Thus, I mist disassemble more of the previously Andreani installed internals. Wihtout special tools, this can be a pain, much easer to just pour in the correct amount. of fork fluid. But that's the rub, lol, can't figure out what that amount might be, 400, 370, etc.

Heading out to the garage now, I'll report back.

[LaGrasta]

Good morning everyone, and Happy Easter.

Yesterday's fork upgrade did not go well. After far too many hours of strain and frustration, I poured some rum and watched Supercross to relax! Without naming all the particular things that went wrong, I'll sum up by saying I think I need a right-side (when seated) fork leg. I replaced the seal, left if on it's side for 3-4 hours, no leaks. No sooner than it's mounted on the bike, it's leaking. It could be I nicked the seal however Andreani stated this particular fork leg had wear signs, on opposites sides. After it was measured, it proved to be well within specs. I'm not sure what to guess. He said the leg had very little fluid when he received it, however I never notice any leaks prior to sending to them.

Compounding the problem, I used this time to finally mount my adjustable clip-ons, as they mount on the forks, between each triple tree. I put them on backward, so it was difficult to tighten the allen bolts. Then, I discover I'll have to purchase longer cables and lines, or be forced to reroute them. However to do this, it seems the headlight may have to come off. Before I know it, then entire front end will be on the workbench.

My first item to deal with is the leg and seal. Shall I take it somewhere to help access the wear marks, and install the seal? GuzziTech is near, however pricey. I'm more than able to mount the seal, even determine if the leg is bent, and I'm all for saving money.

Your thoughts?

[docc]

I hope someone has some good advice on getting your forks to seal.

Back in the shop, I see I used 100 mm air gap on my early Sport 40mm Marzocchi, corresponding to 330 ml fluid per leg.

[Lucky Phil]

On 4/1/2024 at 3:49 AM, LaGrasta said:

Good morning everyone, and Happy Easter.

Yesterday's fork upgrade did not go well. After far too many hours of strain and frustration, I poured some rum and watched Supercross to relax! Without naming all the particular things that went wrong, I'll sum up by saying I think I need a right-side (when seated) fork leg. I replaced the seal, left if on it's side for 3-4 hours, no leaks. No sooner than it's mounted on the bike, it's leaking. It could be I nicked the seal however Andreani stated this particular fork leg had wear signs, on opposites sides. After it was measured, it proved to be well within specs. I'm not sure what to guess. He said the leg had very little fluid when he received it, however I never notice any leaks prior to sending to them.

Compounding the problem, I used this time to finally mount my adjustable clip-ons, as they mount on the forks, between each triple tree. I put them on backward, so it was difficult to tighten the allen bolts. Then, I discover I'll have to purchase longer cables and lines, or be forced to reroute them. However to do this, it seems the headlight may have to come off. Before I know it, then entire front end will be on the workbench.

My first item to deal with is the leg and seal. Shall I take it somewhere to help access the wear marks, and install the seal? GuzziTech is near, however pricey. I'm more than able to mount the seal, even determine if the leg is bent, and I'm all for saving money.

Your thoughts?

What fork seals are you using? I use these Ariete ARI.023 and the Y type dust seals with the spring on the outside. The dust seal will be something like 40x54.4x 4.6x14. It's written on the seal so you can X ref with Ariete p/n. I also use a very thin home made plastic sleeve for seal protection on the fork slider at the bush end to fit the new seal onto the slider. Make sure you tap the bush in before the seal and spacer. Don't fit them together. The seal should just push into the fork stanchion with a firm downward push on the seal driving tool. No need to hammer anything. Make sure your seal driver isn't a style that pushes down on the critical sealing lip area of the seal. I have a seal driver that I can't use on some seal s even though the driver is the correct size because it's OD isn't quite enough to not interfere with the sealing lip area. 

 

Phil  

[LaGrasta]

Update: I spoke with Andreani and discussed my seal, bushes, and cartridge r&r. So this morning, I bought a single fork leg to replace mine. I found a guy just north of my home that had the exact side and size I needed. He works at Scotties's and is a Guzzisti as well. I'm told everything is perfect and could be put in the bike and used as-is. I'll have to pull his internals and replace with mine though, to do so is merely removing the top cap and lower allen and swapping in the Andreani cartridge. I'll top off with new fluid and I should be good to go.

I'll of course still need to sort my new clip-ons, and the cable/line length limitations. I'm hoping to just reroute them, rather than replace with longer.

[GuzziMoto]

7 minutes ago, LaGrasta said:

Update: I spoke with Andreani and discussed my seal, bushes, and cartridge r&r. So this morning, I bought a single fork leg to replace mine. I found a guy just north of my home that had the exact side and size I needed. He works at a NorCal moto shop and is a Guzzisti as well. I'm told everything is perfect and could be put in the bike and used as-is. I'll have to pull his internals and replace with mine though, to do so is merely removing the top cap and lower allen and swapping in the Andreani cartridge. I'll top off with new fluid and I should be good to go.

I'll of course still need to sort my new clip-ons, and the cable/line length limitations. I'm hoping to just reroute them, rather than replace with longer.

When I converted the wife's V11 Sport from clip-ons to handlebars I was able to make the cables and lines work by re-routing them. But I had to be pretty creative. Eventually I ordered a longer brake line as I did not like the "creative routing" required to make the stock line work.

[LaGrasta]

For 40mm Marzocchi forks, with Andreani cartridges, X is 350mm (110mm airgap). Stock cartridges is 400mm. 

@docc For 100mm air gap, you mentioned 330mm, for Traxxion cartridges, correct?

[docc]

4 hours ago, LaGrasta said:

For 40mm Marzocchi forks, with Andreani cartridges, X is 350mm (110mm airgap). Stock cartridges is 400mm. 

@docc For 100mm air gap, you mentioned 330mm, for Traxxion cartridges, correct?

Factory cartridges.

(I'm using Taxxion springs, but that does not affect the air gap.)

[LaGrasta]

Factory Manual calls for 400mm of fluid. If Traxxion springs are the same as Marzocchi springs, then I believe you're running too little fluid. Or am I missing another factor?

[docc]

I derived this air gap for my riding preferences, combined with all of the other details of my suspension set-up.

The fluid volume is derived from the air gap, not vice-versa. But only if you want to use the air gap as an additional tuning parameter. Many would say it is "splitting hairs" for the street.

Yet, "the street" is all I gots.

[GuzziMoto]

As docc said, the air gap is the more important measurement for fork oil. Whatever amount of fork oil it takes to get the air gap where you want it is what you need.

It is entirely possible the factory volume spec for fork oil is right for someone. But it could easily be wrong. For me, standard practice when taking forks apart is to measure the air gap, and add fluid to set the air gap back to that measurement when re-filling the forks.